birding-aus

Another bivalve victim (moderated)

To: Darryl McKay <>
Subject: Another bivalve victim (moderated)
From: Ian May <>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:57:08 +1100
<>Hello Darryl

Thank you for raising this. I can understand how you might feel as your comments mirror my own feelings from the opposite camp but it is wrong to blame birding-aus for supporting or opposing views on bird banding. Over the past year or two I have experienced my share of moderation on posts about concerns relating to canon netting and bird banding. Some of my rejected messages have included material that required considerable effort to compile and others were off the cuff comments in retrospect, probably best moderated after all. It can be disappointing when a debate seems to have been stymied or skewed because of a moderators decision but it must be acknowledged that protecting the credibility of birding-aus must be a very difficult job when considering the many diverse, passionate views of all its contributors. You are probably aware that emotional discussion, disagreement and vigorous debate has been part of the scene ever since the Australian birding fraternity organised themselves into clubs and societies. Years ago, I think it was the late 1950's or 60's an RAOU campout was disrupted and brought to an end with fisticuffs between supporters and opponents of bird collecting. Before that it was egg collecting. Later on there were serious tensions over bird photography and its impact at nests. There are probably other examples too. These days, influencing opinions and reviewing some conservation issues will always generate controversy and could be more complicated than in the past because often there is funding and other financial incentives attached to some projects. It is well known that a common negative consequence of project funding is an intransigent response from any potential beneficiaries if they perceive any threat to their source of funds. This is a fact of life we must live with and acknowledge that in such an environment one can expect ongoing resistance to any suggestions for project scrutiny. <>

I have studied Clive's response copied below and I thank him for this and fully accept many parts of the reply that are clearly correct, however the stated conclusions about survival rates of small migratory waders after banding are based on statistical data not robust enough to be used adequately for such conclusions, nor collected for the purpose in a project environment designed to test banding impacts.

To avoid any possibility that such results could be skewed or biased manifests from statistical manipulation and to help put this leg flagging debate to rest, at least one if not more, independent scientific studies need to be undertaken; specifically based on project objectives designed to test/identify the survival rate, mortality and negative impacts from leg flagging/banding/radio tracking/cannon netting on small migratory waders (i.e.. birds no larger than Sanderling). The research should be undertaken in an environment that allows for objective independent work and data analysis. The project outcomes need to provide comparative data so that adequate assessments can be made between birds not banded (perhaps micro chipped or RFID technology ?) compared to birds burdened with single bands, multiple bands, multiple combinations of flags/bands/data loggers. While existing banding projects would need to be accessed and possibly modified to provide adequate information, it is essential that such a project operate independently and be undertaken by impartial qualified researchers. Also essential to lead the project would be to find an impartial experienced person with a demonstrated concern for birds, with appropriate qualifications and ability to do the job.

In relation to developing a satisfactory research proposal, i am sure we could find a group of dedicated volunteers (no financial incentives required) to help design and oversee such a project.




Regards


Ian May
PO Box 110
St Helens, Tas 7216
0428337956


------------------------------------------------------------------------





Darryl McKay wrote:

Birding-Aus is supposed to be a place for everyone with an interest in
Australia's wild birds, their conservation and behaviour.



Looks like bird banders are not welcome?





The following is a response to Mr Ian May's last bird banding bashing in
2011. I suggest Mr Ian May read this very carefully, as it seems as though
he did not the first time it was posted.





Darryl McKay









Hi all



I have been asked to forward an email to the group on behalf of Dr Clive
Minton
regarding some recent postings on birding aus



Cheers Adrian Boyle





Since Ian May's latest posting on the leg flagging of waders quotes excerpts


from a telephone conversation with me, two or three years ago, I thought I should provide some input to rebut his erroneous assertions about the
detrimental effect of flags on wader survival.





Firstly I would like to correct a misunderstanding (or a misquote).  Almost
all coastal migratory waders are extremely site faithful to their non-breeding
grounds - that is, individual adults typically return to the same
non-breeding area year after year. A few individuals relocate, either permanently or
temporarily, to other non-breeding grounds, especially the Sanderling, Red
Knot and (to a lesser extent) Bar-tailed Godwit. There is also some movement of birds in their first year as they explore for their preferred non-breeding
area, and of course birds on migration can be seen far from the non-breeding


grounds on which they were banded. Yet emerging data suggest that in many species, even migrating birds are highly site faithful, using the same
migratory stopover sites year after year.





The reason Ian saw no flagged birds in his recent scanning of wintering
waders
in the Spencer Gulf (about 500 km from the nearest sites in Vic and se SA
where
shorebirds are regularly banded and flagged) is because these birds would
have
all been immatures (mostly first year) which had not been exposed to
flagging. All of the flagged birds he does see in that area will have been flagged elsewhere in south-east Australia and most would have only been temporarily
stopping in his area during migration. (Surprisingly quite a few waders make
a
short move from Victorian and Tasmanian non-breeding areas to South
Australia
in March/April - at the beginning of their northward migration - presumably
to
reduce the transcontinental first leg.)





I would like to now present one or two specific pieces of information to
refute Ian's claim that flags reduce birds' survival, particularly if they are
migrating.





a)             Red-necked Stint





Ken Rogers has calculated average yearly survival from previously banded
birds.
The Red-necked Stint is the most suitable species for such an analysis
because
it is the most widely banded and flagged wader in Australia and is one of
the
smallest species, which Ian claims is one of the most adversely affected.





Period



No. birds caught



Average yearly survival



78/79-88/89



11258



75.1%



89/90-94/95



6186



78.2%



97/98-03/04



5849



78.8%









Data was analysed for three marking periods, as shown in the table above. In


the first period birds were only given metal bands. In the second period
many
also had flags (flagging in Victoria commenced in 1990). In the third period


almost all carried a flag (as well, of course, as a metal band). The annual
survival rates for all three periods were similar. They showed that three
out
of every four Red-necked Stints successfully returned to the banding area
after completing their migration to their Northern Hemisphere breeding grounds (a 24,000km round trip). This is the level of survival rate which would be expected for a species of this size based on wader survival rate analyses carried out elsewhere in the world. It strongly demonstrates that flagging birds does not prejudice their survival and that a high proportion, even of
this small species, returns successfully from migration each year.





b) Larger Waders





Resighting rates and calculated survival rates of some of the medium and
large size migratory waders in Australia show annual survival rates in the 80-93% range. (It is normal for larger birds to have higher survival rates). Furthermore recaptures up to 15 to 20 years after the original marking have
been made on flagged birds of most species, including the smaller species
such
as Red-necked Stint, Sanderling and Curlew Sandpiper. Such birds will have
made a migration to the Northern Hemisphere each year, with a 20-year-old bird
having flown almost 500,000km on migration alone!





c) Ruddy Turnstone





Another example of the lack of any negative effect of flagging on survival concerns a Turnstone carrying an engraved flag - which enables it to be
identified in the field with the aid of a telescope or telephoto camera -
which
has been seen on migration through Taiwan in seven of the past eight
migration
seasons (four northward, three southward). And of course the Turnstone which


made two 27,000km round trip migrations from Victoria to Arctic Siberia,
through Asia and then back via the Central Pacific, was carrying a flag -
and a
1g geolocator attached to a second flag! This further suggests that Ian's
views
are not supported by the facts.





I take some of the blame for Ian's regular outbursts because I should have communicated the Red-necked Stint survival results to him - direct or via a
posting on Birding Aus - when they became available. But I hope that now I
have
set out just a little of the large amount of evidence Ian can accept the
fact
that flagging waders does NOT impair their survival.





It is perhaps also worth pointing out that:





a) those persons who have volunteered so much of their time to further wader


studies are devoted to the wellbeing of these birds and are the last people
who
would want to be involved in any activity which prejudiced their survival.





b) scientists take great care not to carry out studies which generate
results
that are biased by, for example, marked birds behaving differently or
surviving
less well than the norm, as this would compromise the scientific integrity
of
the results, the reputation of the researcher, and (as Ian points out) harm
the
very species the research is designed to help protect!







We would be extremely interested in seeing Ian's data, which sounds like a
very
detailed and long-term time-series of local observations. As discussed
above,
we believe they will most likely be readily explained by existing evidence
on
migratory behavior of each species, but the only way to be sure of this is
to look at the actual observations. Please Ian, support the generation of data
which is fundamental/essential to the conservation of waders and their
habitats in our Flyway. Send in your flag sightings, rather than let them collect in your notebook, and let them be utilised for the benefit of the waders
themselves.







Clive Minton.



8/8/2011

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-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of Ian May
Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2013 11:22 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Another bivalve victim (moderated)



Hi all



As some of you would know, many observers have raised the subject of
restricting or ceasing bird banding on various occasions but this request is
always met with great resistance. Bird banders love the birds too but they
see them mostly as a research resource and do not seem to feel for their
plight.  We know that most small flagged waders never return after their
first flagged migration because we rarely see a bird with an old worn flag. Most of us recognise there will always be an occasional survivor in some populations but it seems that most of the banded birds perish. Yes the proof to demonstrate that waders are not
harmed should be the responsibility of banders but apart from some
statistical manipulations using existing data, i cannot find any impartial
research projects where the primary objective is to determine banding
mortality.



Common sense tells me that any small migratory wader such as a stint or a
curlew sandpiper etc. carrying up to 5 leg flags/bands etc. etc. is going to
have a hard time crossing the planet twice a year. Their migration must be
hard enough without the impediments of flags and bands. They will have a
hard time competing for available food and the probability of tangling with
fibrous algae must be increased exponentially.  Some examples of leg
flagging seem needless and almost certain to cause losses of the targeted
birds. There are pics circulating of Spoon-billed Sandpiper chicks flagged
at the nest wearing multiple bands and flags.  We have had examples of
Red-necked Phalaropes with leg flags; these birds must swim to survive and
what are there chances of surviving with a leg flag attached? Masses of
flagged Sanderling rapidly running up and down beaches dodging wave action
while attempting to feed. Some of us think this is an outrage.



For many years from the mid 1960's Sanderling could be observed in SE South
Australia sometimes in flocks more than 700.  Suddenly flagging started and
it was not unusual to see dozens or more; flagged birds trailing the main
flock struggling to run up and down the beach following the waves.  Where
the local population remained constant for at least 20 years while dodging
domestic dogs and 4WDs and beach fisherman, within a few years of the first
flagging exercises, the local population crashed to below 400 and is still
diminishing  The alarming fact is that we rarely see any Sanderling in the
area with old flags returning. Where are they? Leg flagging local Sanderling continues
and there is always an explanation such as first year birds go elsewhere or
some other convenient story announced to excuse absent flagged birds on their return. The banding protocol used to state that a maximum of
3% of waders will be flagged.  I had the impression that meant 3% of the
birds caught or of the birds in a local area.  Silly me.  Once when I raised
the subject that more than 20% of a local Sanderling population were seen
with leg flags, it was explained that the number of flagged Sanderling i
have seen would be much less than 1% of the world population.



I do not believe information from banding/flagging sightings particularly
aids conservation arguments.  The cohort data discovered is interesting but
in most cases the conservation significance of that information is no more
valuable than field sightings of waders at the same location with or without bands. The wader counts of the past
were  a fantastic exercise and engaged many hundreds of birding enthusiasts
but now many of us will not participate or share information for fear that the birds we report will be targeted. Recently for no
justified purpose, the migratory waders that visit Thompson Beach near
Adelaide have been targeted for Canon netting and leg flagging..  They were
safe before the so called shorebird 2020 conservation programs were
introduced and their numbers varied depending on the year but now I expect
we will see a constant decline in local populations as they are cannon
netted and flagged.



A few years ago the outrage of seal branding in Antarctica in the name of
seal conservation was exposed and stopped in its tracks thanks to a few
concerned scientists (whistle blowers) who had observed the sad practice and said "That's enough" I am in favor of wader research through counting and intensive field study. I think it is time to gear
up a political anti bird banding group to oppose what many think as a
destructive threatening process that offers very little if anything, to the
conservation and protection of birds.





Regards





Ian May

PO Box 110

St Helens, Tasmania n7216

0428337956




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