Hear hear
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:24:19 -0700
> From:
> To: ; ; ;
>
> CC: ;
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT
> SHEARWATER
>
> "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" is generally attributed
> to Mark Twain. It's a fine sentiment when you're telling a ripping yarn after
> dinner or propping up the front bar. However, it just doesn't translate into
> birding.
>
> Everyone makes mistakes. Anybody can misidentify a bird and everybody who
> tries to identify them will get them wrong sometimes. I've made plenty of bad
> calls on birds. I've seen better birders than me stuff it up completely. And
> I've seen plenty of feisty debates, often never to be resolved. Some birders
> are more prone than others to making up their mind on the spot and refusing
> to consider alternatives. Some are pleased to be corrected when appropriate.
> What matters is getting the record straight so that everyone knows what is
> fact, what is fiction, and what is unresolved. Sometimes egos get bruised,
> which is not the best part of what we do. Fora like Birding-Aus and Eremea
> are excellent for getting information out quickly and helping birders see
> lots of good birds that they never would have heard about in days gone by. So
> thank you to the moderators all over Australia for all the volunteer work
> that you do for the birding community. But the reports
> circulated in these fora are not vetted and not confirmed. Most are correct,
> but a percentage are wrong. That is how it works. In this case the record has
> been vetted publicly and the record has been set straight. There are other
> ways of vetting records. However, this is an example of the birding community
> working together to document birds, help the observer know they likely saw,
> and keep the literature that little bit cleaner of errors. We learn and move
> on. Good stuff.
>
> Andrew, you did the right thing, gave your honest opinion and made it
> available to all of us. I hope this conversation has not given you any
> regrets, because you need have none. Welcome to the Australian birding
> community!
>
> David James,
> Sydney
>
> ==============================
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: martin cachard <>
> To: ; ; jeff davies
> <>
> Cc: birding-aus threads <>;
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2012 12:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT
> SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
>
>
> Hi Nikolas, Andrew & all No Nik, you weren't the smart arse on this one -
> maybe it was me. I was very quick to say the Speckled Warbler wasn't one,
> but that it was a young Rufous Whistler. I was also quickly agreeing with you
> & Mike Carter that the Great Shearwater that Andrew saw & thought was a Great
> Shearwater, was indeed a young Aust Gannet. I left the tern ID alone - but
> yes I do agree, 1st yr Common Tern... So maybe it is me that should apologise
> for being so fast to question these sightings... rightly or wrongly... But I
> feel the bigger evil is when one takes a veiled swipe, & that wasn't me or
> yourself, Nik, so that person is the one who should apologise, not you or
> me... Cheers for now, Martin Cachard Cairns 0428 782 808
> > Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 02:15:31 -0700
> > From:
> > To: ;
> > CC: ;
> > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT
> > SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> >
> > Hi Andrew and Philip,
> >
> > Andrew, first I would like to apologize to you that I opened this can of
> > worms with my first e-mail questioning your sighting. Since you mentioned
> > that you were familiar with Manx Shearwater, I am sure that you were
> > familiar with Northern Gannets, too. On the other hand your description
> > fits best an immature gannet - on this side of the world most likely an
> > Australasian Gannet. In this case (until proven otherwise) it was important
> > to have the note removed from Eremaea to not confuse future searches for
> > Great Shearwater. I definitely don't want to scare you off. Please continue
> > to report your sightings, Andrew.
> >
> >
> > Philip, I strongly disagree with your small leaps. They happen all too
> > often and are wrong. I have been member of a number of rare bird committees
> > on various continents. I often noticed that submitters don't consider the
> > unusual. E.g. to me a report of a Bridled Tern clearly ruling out a Sooty
> > Tern, doesn't mean that the bird was a Bridled Tern unless you also rule
> > out a Spectacled/Grey-backed Tern (even though it is not [yet] on the
> > Australian list). Another story is that of an adult male Lark Bunting
> > reported to us when I was part of the New Jersey Rare Birds Committee. Lark
> > Bunting is the only black finch-like bird in North American field guides
> > but still highly unlikely in New Jersey. The photos proved it to be one of
> > the African widow finches - obviously an escapee. Therefore in order to
> > prove the small leap you have to make a big leap.
> >
> >
> > Often, once you are on the wrong track, you may get lost. So I guess, if
> > you misidentify a gannet for a shearwater and you still notice its huge
> > size, why not think of a Great [sic!] Shearwater or another large
> > shearwater species? Therefore, I totally understand this thought - even
> > without wishful thinking involved. Funny things do happen: I know someone
> > whose name begins with "N" and ends with "ikolas" (no, it wasn't David
> > James!) who screamed "Streaked Shearwater". This bird turned out to be the
> > most gigantic shearwater I've ever seen with a wing span of 3.5 metres! It
> > turned out to be a Wandering Albatross! Sh.. happens.
> >
> >
> > And yes, most - if not all - shearwaters dive, but to my knowledge and
> > experience not in the way Andrew described it.
> >
> > Finally, yes (1) the mystery tern was a Common Tern moulting from first
> > winter to first summer plumage (note the seasons refer to the northern
> > hemisphere) and (2) the mystery little speckled bird was a juv Rufous
> > Whistler. I just didn't want to be the smart arse again - but I guess I am
> > ;-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Nikolas
> >
> >
> > ----------------
> > Nikolas Haass
> >
> > Sydney, NSW
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Philip Veerman <>
> > To: 'Jeff Davies' <>
> > Cc: ;
> > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 7:37 PM
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT
> > SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> >
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > Thanks for your comment. Sorry if you or others think so, I wasn't intending
> > "way overkill". I am curious at the general phenomenon (not just this case)
> > of people making big leaps of identification, rather than small leaps and
> > wondering why this sort of thing happens somewhat often. A very long time
> > ago (20 to 30 years) when I was seasick on a pelagic trip, I looked up at
> > something, probably not very clearly, and thought I had seen a distant
> > Wandering Albatross, because it was mainly white above, but that thought
> > only lasted a few minutes. No doubt it was an adult Gannet. So why did I
> > want it to be a Wandering Albatross, simply because I wanted it! But that is
> > a species you could reasonably expect to have encountered at that place and
> > date.
> >
> > It is interesting why would an identification go to that particular species
> > (Great Shearwater) which is unlikely just on status. I understand a new
> > birder to our shores learning the ropes thinking what a great bird. But
> > curious as to the thought process. Could it be because it has been mentioned
> > recently? As in my question is about the role of wishful thinking in bird
> > identification over the whole range of people and experiences. I don't see
> > this as rubbing it in.
> >
> > And yes you are right that Great Shearwater is not ONLY "on the other side
> > of the world" (but usually is).
> >
> > Lastly the question remains: Do any shearwaters feed by diving behaviour as
> > described?
> >
> > Philip
> >
> > -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Davies
> > Sent: Monday, 19 March 2012 2:35 PM
> > To: 'Philip Veerman'; Cc:
> >
> > Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT
> > SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> >
> >
> > This is way overkill Philip,
> >
> > it was an honest mistake by Andrew McKey a new birder to our shores learning
> > the ropes, who was brave enough to put up a report for scrutiny.
> > Should have been picked up by the forum administrators before going to air,
> > but has now been corrected by a couple of observant forum readers as a
> > perfect description for a young Gannet. Reports of late demonstrate clearly
> > that Great Shearwater is not only "on the other side of the world" and this
> > probably resonated with Andrew.
> >
> > So why rub it in, cheers Jeff.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----From:
> > On Behalf Of Philip Veerman
> > Sent: Monday, 19 March 2012 2:08 PM To: Cc:
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia
> > Weekly Update GREAT SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> >
> > Sure we can make mistakes on confusing difficult species but I am amused by
> > this one, not at the making a mistake. I can understand someone saying I
> > don't know what it is but why come up with an idea of Great Shearwater? I
> > don't find it in my Aussie field guides, so why would that be in the mix of
> > ideas? Indeed Peter Harrison's Seabirds book shows Great Shearwater on the
> > opposite side of the world. Looking at the pictures of Great Shearwater in
> > that book does not raise images to me of similarity to a gannet. Gannet do
> > occur in UK. I think Michael Palin said he didn't like a British bird book
> > because it had the Gannet in it.
> >
> > Lastly, now I am curious. Do any shearwaters feed by diving behaviour as
> > described? I have not seen it.
> >
> > Philip
> >
> > ===============================
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