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Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT

To: <>, <>, jeff davies <>
Subject: Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
From: martin cachard <>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 00:25:12 +1100
Hi Nikolas, Andrew & all No Nik, you weren't the smart arse on this one - maybe 
it was me.  I was very quick to say the Speckled Warbler wasn't one, but that 
it was a young Rufous Whistler. I was also quickly agreeing with you & Mike 
Carter that the Great Shearwater that Andrew saw & thought was a Great 
Shearwater, was indeed a young Aust Gannet. I left the tern ID alone - but yes 
I do agree, 1st yr Common Tern... So maybe it is me that should apologise for 
being so fast to question these sightings... rightly or wrongly... But I feel 
the bigger evil is when one takes a veiled swipe, & that wasn't me or yourself, 
Nik, so that person is the one who should apologise, not you or me... Cheers 
for now,   Martin Cachard   Cairns   0428 782 808  
 > Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 02:15:31 -0700
> From: 
> To: ; 
> CC: ; 
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT     
> SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> 
> Hi Andrew and Philip,
> 
> Andrew, first I would like to apologize to you that I opened this can of 
> worms with my first e-mail questioning your sighting. Since you mentioned 
> that you were familiar with Manx Shearwater, I am sure that you were familiar 
> with Northern Gannets, too. On the other hand your description fits best an 
> immature gannet - on this side of the world most likely an Australasian 
> Gannet. In this case (until proven otherwise) it was important to have the 
> note removed from Eremaea to not confuse future searches for Great 
> Shearwater. I definitely don't want to scare you off. Please continue to 
> report your sightings, Andrew.
> 
> 
> Philip, I strongly disagree with your small leaps. They happen all too often 
> and are wrong. I have been member of a number of rare bird committees on 
> various continents. I often noticed that submitters don't consider the 
> unusual. E.g. to me a report of a Bridled Tern clearly ruling out a Sooty 
> Tern, doesn't mean that the bird was a Bridled Tern unless you also rule out 
> a Spectacled/Grey-backed Tern (even though it is not [yet] on the Australian 
> list). Another story is that of an adult male Lark Bunting reported to us 
> when I was part of the New Jersey Rare Birds Committee. Lark Bunting is the 
> only black finch-like bird in North American field guides but still highly 
> unlikely in New Jersey. The photos proved it to be one of the African widow 
> finches - obviously an escapee. Therefore in order to prove the small leap 
> you have to make a big leap.
> 
> 
> Often, once you are on the wrong track, you may get lost. So I guess, if you 
> misidentify a gannet for a shearwater and you still notice its huge size, why 
> not think of a Great [sic!] Shearwater or another large shearwater species? 
> Therefore, I totally understand this thought - even without wishful thinking 
> involved. Funny things do happen: I know someone whose name begins with "N" 
> and ends with "ikolas" (no, it wasn't David James!) who screamed "Streaked 
> Shearwater". This bird turned out to be the most gigantic shearwater I've 
> ever seen with a wing span of 3.5 metres! It turned out to be a Wandering 
> Albatross! Sh.. happens.
> 
> 
> And yes, most - if not all - shearwaters dive, but to my knowledge and 
> experience not in the way Andrew described it.
> 
> Finally, yes (1) the mystery tern was a Common Tern moulting from first 
> winter to first summer plumage (note the seasons refer to the northern 
> hemisphere) and (2) the mystery little speckled bird was a juv Rufous 
> Whistler. I just didn't want to be the smart arse again - but I guess I am ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Nikolas
> 
>  
> ----------------
> Nikolas Haass
> 
> Sydney, NSW
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: Philip Veerman <>
> To: 'Jeff Davies' <> 
> Cc: ;  
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 7:37 PM
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT 
> SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
>  
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Thanks for your comment. Sorry if you or others think so, I wasn't intending
> "way overkill". I am curious at the general phenomenon (not just this case)
> of people making big leaps of identification, rather than small leaps and
> wondering why this sort of thing happens somewhat often. A very long time
> ago (20 to 30 years) when I was seasick on a pelagic trip, I looked up at
> something, probably not very clearly, and thought I had seen a distant
> Wandering Albatross, because it was mainly white above, but that thought
> only lasted a few minutes. No doubt it was an adult Gannet. So why did I
> want it to be a Wandering Albatross, simply because I wanted it! But that is
> a species you could reasonably expect to have encountered at that place and
> date. 
> 
> It is interesting why would an identification go to that particular species
> (Great Shearwater) which is unlikely just on status. I understand a new
> birder to our shores learning the ropes thinking what a great bird. But
> curious as to the thought process. Could it be because it has been mentioned
> recently? As in my question is about the role of wishful thinking in bird
> identification over the whole range of people and experiences. I don't see
> this as rubbing it in. 
> 
> And yes you are right that Great Shearwater is not ONLY "on the other side
> of the world" (but usually is).
> 
> Lastly the question remains: Do any shearwaters feed by diving behaviour as
> described? 
> 
> Philip
> 
> -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Davies 
> Sent: Monday, 19 March 2012 2:35 PM
> To: 'Philip Veerman';     Cc: 
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia Weekly Update GREAT
> SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> 
> 
> This is way overkill Philip, 
> 
> it was an honest mistake by Andrew McKey a new birder to our shores learning
> the ropes, who was brave enough to put up a report for scrutiny. 
> Should have been picked up by the forum administrators before going to air,
> but has now been corrected by a couple of observant forum readers as a
> perfect description for a young Gannet. Reports of late demonstrate clearly
> that Great Shearwater is not only "on the other side of the world" and this
> probably resonated with Andrew.
> 
> So why rub it in, cheers Jeff.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----From: 
>  On Behalf Of Philip Veerman
> Sent: Monday, 19 March 2012 2:08 PM    To:     Cc:
>     Subject: [Birding-Aus] Birdline Western Australia
> Weekly Update GREAT SHEARWATER CLEARLY NOT
> 
> Sure we can make mistakes on confusing difficult species but I am amused by
> this one, not at the making a mistake. I can understand someone saying I
> don't know what it is but why come up with an idea of Great Shearwater? I
> don't find it in my Aussie field guides, so why would that be in the mix of
> ideas? Indeed Peter Harrison's Seabirds book shows Great Shearwater on the
> opposite side of the world. Looking at the pictures of Great Shearwater in
> that book does not raise images to me of similarity to a gannet. Gannet do
> occur in UK. I think Michael Palin said he didn't like a British bird book
> because it had the Gannet in it. 
> 
> Lastly, now I am curious. Do any shearwaters feed by diving behaviour as
> described? I have not seen it. 
> 
> Philip
> 
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