From what I have seen, the official lists seem to be somehwat conservative
WRT splits. This one seems pretty ironclad anyway. I think developing a
relationship and working with one of the international lists is better than
trying to 'go it alone'. The issue with C&B is that it was a published list
in a book, and is hence not updateable like the online IOC lists etc.
Cas
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Dave Torr
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:31 AM
To: jenny spry
Cc: birding-aus
Subject: White-naped Honeyeater Split
Jen
Thanks for that, but I fear that any local committee - no matter how
distinguished the membership - is inevitably going to lead to the Australian
list being different to the one used by the rest of the world (OK - there
are various world lists produced by different taxonomists and other bodies,
but we should accept one of those) and thus we will always end up with
discrepancies such as the Albatrosses.
I think there is clearly a role for Australians in trying to lobby for our
choice of names to be used, but I am less convinced that we need a different
taxonomy - for example if our local experts decided we did not accept the
split of the White-naped we could hardly lobby on what name to use for the
Western form!
Dave
On 31 October 2010 11:22, jenny spry <> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Following on from Dave's comments, by default, we are already starting
> to use international lists for Australian purposes.
>
>
>
> For example, BOCA and Birds Australia are currently participating in
> the Birdlife International "Important Bird Area" project (IBA). This
> is an international project where many countries around the world have
> declared certain areas "important" for the protection of "threatened
> species". These areas are selected to protect habitat for birds listed
> on the IUCN Red List of Endangered Species. Australia has accepted the
> IUCN Red list and has selected IBAs based on birds that are included on
the IUCN Red list.
>
>
>
> In most cases this is fine, but not always. Just to illustrate the
> potential/actual conflicts, the IUCN recognizes the Indian
> Yellow-nosed Albatross (*Thalassarche carteri* ) as a threatened species,
not a race.
> Races, threatened or otherwise, are not included in the IBA project,
> only species. This means that for our international participation with
> the IBA project, Birds Australia / BOCA treat *Thalassarche carteri*
> as a species but for local Australian purposes, using C & B 2008,
> *Thalassarche carteri
> * is classified as a race of *Thalassarche chlororhynchos*, not a full
> species.
>
>
>
> Now, I agree that the Alboatross/Mollymawk group is a very contentious
> group but this example is just one and the situation could apply to
> other Australian species both currently on, or eligible for listing
> with, the IUCN Red list.
>
>
>
> Perhaps a solution is for BA/BOCA to constitute a group of people,
> along the lines of BARC (possibly including C & B if they are
> interested), to assess proposed changes as they arise. These changes
> could then be adopted as updates to C & B 2008, without the need to
> totally rewrite the one list every ten years or so.
>
>
>
> Also, if there is any scientific / popular wish to keep using an
> Australian generated list, and I think there is especially in the
> selection of Common Names, then I believe our Australian generated
> list needs to be maintained before our international obligations send
> us to an internationally generated and maintained list, by default.
> For an example of this problem, in general communications here and
> elsewhere, *Melithreptus chloropsis* is already attracting two common
> names, Western White-naped Honeyeater and Swan River White-naped
Honeyeater.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Jen
>
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Dave Torr <> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it is time for Australia to accept one of the International
>> taxonomies as our "official" (whatever that means) scheme. C&B will
>> be come increasingly out of date as the rest of the world splits our
>> species.
>> BARC clearly is an arbiter of "vagrants" and this is a totally
>> separate process from the taxonomy used.
>>
>> On 30 October 2010 22:49, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Colin
>> > Melithreptus chloropsis is listed as a full species on the ION
>> > (Index of Organism Names) database, so it must be kosher. The ION
>> > is the
>> international
>> > arbiter of Zoological and Mycological species and it is up to them
>> > to
>> decide
>> > if a species stands or not.
>> >
>> > I don't think there will be another edition of C&B, I think 2
>> > editions
>> was
>> > enough for them. It will probably be up to other authors to take up
>> > the challenge. Perhaps it will appear in a new edition of HANZAB,
>> > but I
>> don't
>> > think that will happen in the little tenure I have left on life.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Carl Clifford
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 30/10/2010, at 9:24 PM, Colin Scouler wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello birders.
>> >
>> > So, is the Swan River (or Western) Honeyeater now an official tick?
>> >
>> > What's the procedure in between editions of Christidis and Boles?
>> >
>> > Is this a matter for BARC to buy into?
>> >
>> > Colin Scouler.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Begin forwarded message:
>> >
>> > From: "Wedderburn Birding" <>
>> >> Date: 30 October 2010 12:44:37 PM
>> >> To: "'BIRDING-AUS'" <>, <
>>
>> >> >
>> >> Subject: [Birding-Aus] White-naped Honeyeater Split
>> >>
>> >> Following previous discussion on Birding-Aus on the possible
>> >> split, the latest IOC list v 2.6 has split the White-naped
>> >> Honeyeater
>> (Melithreptus
>> >> lunatus) into the Swan River Honeyeater (Melithreptus chloropsis),
>> which
>> >> occurs in SW Western Australia (N to Swan River Plain and
>> >> Wheatbelt in
>> W).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Bruce
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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