House Crows and ticking ethics

To: "'Chris Sanderson'" <>
Subject: House Crows and ticking ethics
From: "Tony Russell" <>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:24:46 +1030
Of course you can't tell which is which, hence discussion whether ship
assisted, released, or whatever, is a pointless effort. Very rarely,
except at least with a normally caged  fancier bird, has anyone any idea
how a bird might have got here. Of course a thundering great escape like
your Macaw is unlikely to be considered tickable, one has to use some
discretion, but birds not kept by fanciers have to be given
Java Sparrow ? Yes. on my list from Christmas Island.
Blue Rock Thrush ? Couldn't get there because I was still working full
time, but I would have counted it if I had been able to get there and
see it.  Just like others who saw it did.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sanderson  
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:25 AM
To: Tony Russell
Cc: Evan Beaver; Birding Aus; Alan McBride
Subject: House Crows and ticking ethics

Hi Tony,

I think Evan's point isn't that you left them out of your discussion,
but more do you have a reliable way of telling which is which?  For
example, how do you know someone didn't have a pet House Crow that
escaped?  Bad example probably but if I told you there was a Blue and
Yellow Macaw flying around in my back yard would you come and tick it?
What about a Java Sparrow?  Or something really contentious like a Blue
Rock Thrush?

I think it's important for each odd bird that is found to have the
potential that it's a caged bird that has been released or escaped
assessed.  Which as I understand is pretty much what we already do.


ps. while I agree with Evan about putting what you want on your list,
that only works if you're not competing with other twitchers.  If you
are you need to use the same rules or it's not fair.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Tony Russell <>

Ok, I hadn't considered them part of the discussion, but surely once
even escapes or releases establish viable populations, we have to admit
them to our listings. Hence dear old Starlings, Sparrows, Mynas,
Goldfinches, Greenfinches, Blackbirds etc etc are all now included
because we can't get rid of them and it's foolish to ignore them.


-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Beaver 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:38 AM
To: Tony Russell
Cc: Alan McBride; Birding Aus
Subject: House Crows and ticking ethics

Not that it matters in any way to me, but there's a hole in your logic
Tony that seems to allow escapees and releases. But, as I've said
before, tick what ever you see fit, it's your list, no-one else
(should) care what's on it.

I however won't be ticking it, and hope that it's destroyed before
slinking off to find the rest of the House Crow secret society, lying in
wait for sufficient numbers to arrive and begin breeding, and fulfil
their ultimate goal of destroying all native avifauna.


On 3/27/08, Tony Russell <> wrote:
My stance is that if the bird is in Oz, no matter how it got here, then
it's tickable, and no amount of contention as to it's mode of travel is


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