birding-aus

Species concepts 1

To: "'Tim Murphy'" <>
Subject: Species concepts 1
From: "Colin Driscoll" <>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:04:23 +1100
Most of my involvement in taxonomy is in the plant world and it is pretty
well accepted that disjunct populations of a species form locally adaptive
genotypes that probably could not successfully interbreed despite the fact
that specimens from these populations look the same.

I'm guessing this occurs less in the bird world because of their mobility
compared to limited dispersal of most plants. I believe for example that
genetic sampling of the Powerful Owl has shown that it is the same
throughout the entire range and I expect your Caspian Terns (I know the
Toronto ones well since I live near there) might be the same.

Colin Driscoll

-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of Tim Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 11:24 AM
Cc: 
Subject: Species concepts 1

Paul Erlich, the noted population ecologist, was talking at the University
of Queensland last night, and he said that the question of what is a species
is unimportant and meaningless. Small populations of a particular "species"
are always going extinct locally and built up again by recruitment from
outside the area.

His definition of a species is that it is what is accepted as a species by a
taxonomist.

I personally think there is much to be said in favour of his argument. As he
pointed out at the talk, we are observing a cross section in time of
evolution. IMHO, partitioning a three dimensional evolutionary bush into
separate species on some two dimensional criteria is arrogant and pointless.

Only well after the event can one point out the families and orders, which
may evolved from minor differences in the past.

To spend much time wondering if a parrot (all credit for finding it by the
way) is a good species or sub-species is pointless. It is rare and should be
preserved.

Tim Murphy

PS. For my world bird list I follow Clements, who, thank God, does not
recognise the 24 (or whatever) Albatross species, so I don't worry about
them. My opinion is that they are no more good species than the Caspian
Terns which I have seen in Toronto and in Brisbane are seperate good
species. Erlich touched on how isolated populations stay as single species.
If I understood him, it is because the evolutionary pressures force the
birds into similarity - but that is a gross oversimplification.

-----Original Message-----
From: 
 Behalf Of John Murray
Penhallurick
Sent: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 9:46 AM
To: 'David Stowe'; 'Syd Curtis'
Cc: 
Subject: Species concepts 1


Hi all,
Re Phylogenetic and Biological Species.
Michael Wink & I wrote in our 2004 paper:
==========


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