At 10:55 21/04/99 +1000, wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> Ross is correct juvenal is the plumage.
>
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>Hi y'all:
>The way I understand it, juvenal refers to the plumage worn by juvenile
>birds eg the second summer gull retained some juvenal feathers.
>Ross Silcock
Hi birders
I'm inclined to disagree here. I've certainly heard rumours of this kind
over the years but I haven't seen much evidence for it. As I understand it,
in ordinary "English" both juvenal and juvenile are adjectives meaning
youthful or something of that kind, and are totally interchangable
synonyms. Juvenal dates to 1588 and juvenile to 1625 according to my
Shorter Oxford. They both come from Latin roots, "juvenalis" and
"juvenilis" respectively, which I think are synonymous. In current writing
juvenal is used in the USA at least for birds in their first pennaceous
plumage (juvenal birds) and for the first pennaceous plumage in birds
(juvenal plumage), whereas in Australia and the UK juvenile is used for
both these and for young people (I'm not sure what term is used in the USA
for people). There are numerous authoratative references which define the
first pennaceous plumage of birds as juvenile, such as BWP and HANZAB.
Perhaps this confusion has arisen from a misconception that "juvenile" is a
noun (it is wideley used as a noun, as are many adjectives) and its
adjectival form is "juvenal". However, in the USA "juvenal" is used as noun
and an adjective. I can't see any benefit in restricting one spelling of
the adjective to bird-plumages and restricting the other spelling to
everything except bird-plumages. I'd be happy to hear of any reference or
references that do (attempt to) redefine these to have different meanings.
On the difference between juvenile and immature, it has already been
correctly pointed out that "juvenile" (when talking birds) has been
restricted in definition (by numerous publications) to refer to birds in
their first pennaceous (contour) plumage. However, I think that "immature"
is a much more vague term and many definitions of this word are used, such
that it can only be said to be any bird that is not mature. Thus, juvenile
birds are by definition immature birds, but immature birds are not
necessarily juvenile birds.
cheers,
David James
PO BOX 5225
Townsville Mail Centre,
Qld 4810, Australia
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