I don't know about "a concerted effort by some out there to convince the
public that Northern (tropical) feral cats are no different and have been
on mainland Australia, no longer than any of the others feral cats that we
see roaming the bush across the rest of the land". All I know about the
issue, is the same vague comments to suggest that cats were introduced to
northern Australia prior to 1788. The evidence supporting the idea has never
seemed more than a single repeated unsupported suggestion. Not much to raise
a concerted effort against. Apologies if I did not know it all. What Ian
wrote is the first attempt I have seen of anyone to provide any kind of
supportive evidence. That at least is sort of interesting and maybe directs
a discussion. Though I think it is pretty flimsy evidence. Indeed really
nothing direct to support an idea that just would seem unlikely. I wonder
how and why these people would bring cats to Australia.
Also this message is not about hating cats...... Though I sure wish they
weren't here.
It appears in part based on data on the coat colours of these feral cats. I
am not quite sure what to make of the suggested differences. Coat colour
genetics of cats is well known. If there are specific different genes in the
Asian populations and those of northern Australia, that should be more
obvious than suggested. The bob tail is also a good question. 38 years ago,
I did a 3rd year Genetics project (La Trobe Uni) investigating the coat
pattern genetics of feral cats, testing the hypothesis that under some
selective pressure for camouflage assisting better hunting or protection
from predators they would tend to revert to wild-type. Was a fun project and
the results went in favour of the suggestion but it was hard to get a good
quantity of data back then. Sadly at the time there was not enough data in
it to justify publication of it. Though there was enough data to be
suggestive of a result. What came from the literature review I did at the
time of some studies that related coat colour genetics to tracing
populations in urban centres at various places around the world and what I
have found since then is that yes the idea of comparing relative frequencies
of identifiable genes can mean something that contributes to history. But it
can also be confused by time as these phenotypes in a population can change
quite quickly. There could easily be separate selective pressures operating
in the tropics to cause local differentiation and it is likely that these
could have happened within 2 centuries.
On another point, the subject lines of these emails about cats (and swifts)
on this over the past few weeks have behaved like herding cats. Now cats are
linked to WTNT in NE Tasmania. As far removed from cats in northern
Australia as we can get and worthy of its own separate header. Can people
please create new subjects if needed and try to be consistent so that
thoughts don't get lost and confused.........
Philip
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
Carl Clifford
Sent: Tuesday, 10 March 2015 12:25 PM
To: Ian May
Cc: ;
Subject: cats and also WTNT in NE Tasmania
Do any feral cats in the top end have bobbed or deformed tails? Bob or
deformed tails are very common in Asian domestic cats, and the gene in
Australian ferals would be a good indicator of cats being brought in from
Asia.
Carl Clifford
> On 9 Mar 2015, at 5:20 pm, Ian May <> wrote:
>
> Hello all
>
> There appears to be a concerted effort by some out there to convince the
public that Northern (tropical) feral cats are no different and have been
on mainland Australia, no longer than any of the others feral cats that we
see roaming the bush across the rest of the land. In my experience, that
does not seem correct and is probably wrong. The theory that northern
tropical feral cats were introduced by early Makassar sailors to me seems
not only plausible, but likely.
>
> Having had a lifelong interest in wildlife and and during the 90's mapped
most of the ancient Makassar trepang (Sea Cucumbers, Holothurians) camps
located along the coast from Darwin to Boome, I observed that most feral
cats in remote coastal areas away from towns are similar if not identical in
appearance to a typical Timor/Makassar tabby type. Furthermore, compared
to the larger type feral cats of inland Australia, the behaviour and habits
of the feral cats inhabiting remote coastal tropical areas are more cryptic
and, notwithstanding the heavier vegetation cover of their habitat, much
more difficult to locate compared to their inland cousins. Tropical feral
cats have a much more uniform appearance, seem smaller and are distinctively
different compared to feral cats of inland Australia. Of course, there is
an obviuos influence of more typical house cat type ferals as one moved
closer to established human communities.
>
> The absence of cats found at ancient Makassar archaeological sites across
northern Australian coast is not surprising. This does not diminish the
possibility/probability that cats were introduced to northern Australia many
years, probably more than 400+ years before European settlement by Makassar
or even earlier, by Madagascan sailors. How many dead cats would one really
expect to see at any archaeological site in northern Australia including
European sites?
> It has been stated there are no cats to be seen in ancient aboriginal art.
However, for all its unique cultural significance, Aboriginal art is not the
most reliable form of natural history recording. In some of the remotest
parts of the Kimberley coast there are what is known as Bradshaw style
(Gyorn Gyorn) paintings(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradshaw_rock_paintings ) among many other
things, showing what appear to be Madagascan type sailors wearing trouser
tassels and representing other characteristic artefacts' some including
animals and sailing boats. The fact that the Bradshaw paintings precedes
aboriginal art and have been painted over by ancient Wanjana aboriginal
paintings; themselves known to be hundreds of years older than first known
European visits to the mainland has become controversial. Bradshaw
paintings could be 60000 years old but, to discuss this topic is considered
in some circles to be politically incorrect, just like the discussion around
the likelihood that feral cats have probably been on mainland Australia for
a long time, at least many hundreds of years too.
>
> This likely theory clearly disturbs many cat haters. It appears that,
notwithstanding the predation of an occasional night parrot, it is difficult
for a cat hater to argue or acknowledge that much of the damage that can be
caused by feral cats has probably already been done and that the natural
environment is most likely now accommodating an uncomfortable balance; and
that the impacts from feral cats are now more likely determined from
population fluctuations due to varying but natural seasonal conditions.
>
> This is not to say that we should not be doing everything possi9ble to
> protect vulnerable species of native wildlife from the direct impact
> of predators, both native and feral. Obviously to protect some
> vulnerable rare species, predator control measures are imperative
> however the problem of feral cats needs to be kept in perspective and
> unless voices of reason are heard regarding this problem, there is
> every likelihood that a broad scale attack on feral cats will not only
> be ineffective and hideously expensive, but more than likely will do
> more damage than good.
>
> regards
>
> Ian May
> St Helens, Tasmania
>
> PS Yesterday, across this locality in NE Tasmania, we experienced a
two hour flyover of Spine-tailed Swifts (WTNT) from 0830.
> After 0930, I drove about the district from Dianna Basin to Priory and
from St Helens Point and Stieglitz to Binalong Bay to confirm that it was
happening all across the broad area. Throughout this time, there were
between 1 and 5 birds in any field of view, rarely any period when birds
were not evident, their general movement was inland. Impossible to estimate
numbers but must have been many hundreds, or possibly a thousand + birds.
Earlier in the morning, we watched the slow offshore movement of a dense
rain bearing low pressure tough moving offshore from St Helens point. The
front was carrying many hundreds of Albatross and Petrels.
>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>> I believe there is no support for the hypothesis that cats were
established in Australia prior to European settlement. There's been a paper
or two on this from a few years back but I'll have to dig it/them out when I
get back to the office. From memory the evidence was based on time frames of
invasion, and old reports, ship records, etc. There may have been something
genetic in there too, but I can't really remember. I do remember being
satisfied that the researcher(s) had been thorough, and they convinced me.
>>
>> It's a bit of a longstanding myth, and I certainly believed it based
>> on the appearances of some cats I'd seen in N. Aust. If you or anyone
else on the list has recent papers supporting the alternative hypothesis, of
multiple introductions including prior to European settlement, I'd love to
see them, because it's something I like to keep up with.
>> And without really wanting to cause a stir, I think it's a bit like the
myth of the large outback moggie, fed a high-protein diet (as opposed to?).
My former boss did some work on cats and from memory the average size was
under 4 kg (n = a 100 or so from memory). There are large Felis catus (to
avoid the term "big cats") out there, but I've seen hundreds of cats that I
would put in the 2 - 4 kg guesstimate and about three that were big, maybe >
5 kg.
>>
>> Again, I'll dig out the figures when I get back to the office.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2015, at 7:19 pm, "Michael Hunter"
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All.
>>>
>>> Cats have been a major issue for Australian Wildlife for centuries,
and they have modified the distribution and survival of birds and animals
since first introduced, from Indonesia by the Makassar's and later by
Europeans. Apparently the Northwest half of Oz has genetically Indonesian
type cats, the Southeast are European, for what that is worth.
>>>
>>> Controlling them will take a lot of research and labour, but once
>>> effective control methods are invented, distributing those controls
would be worthwhile. It cost $25 million to control rabbits on Macquarie
Island, what price Night Parrot ad other ground or termite mound nesters and
what are left of our small mammals
>>> The novel spray-on poison for fastidious felines noted by Charles in a
recent post is very interesting. Just how you would get the pussies to pass
the spraying machine is another matter.
>>>
>>> I imagine that pheromones, odours derived from mating female cats,
could be isolated, concentrated and spread around to attract males from far
and wide, and possibly territorial females, would be effective.
>>> We had a cat problem which was solved by trapping in a possum
>>> trap baited with "Snappy Tom" canned cat food, and the miscreants
>>> humanely and painlessly disposed of via the local vet. Feral cats
>>> are said to be extremely indisposed to entering metal traps.
>>> Research into overcoming that problem (larger traps sprayed with
>>> pheromones and completely devoid of human odour) should work at
>>> least some of the time.
>>>
>>> How about Feline Distemper? Hunting dogs in restricted areas?
>>>
>>> Research into the territorial areas of feral cats is a must, maybe
>>> it has already been done.
>>>
>>> Some of you guys with a lot more time than me might surf the net for
>>> answers?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Michael
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