Totally disagree Greg!
I'm not barracking for the ground butcherbirds.....
Go the Magpies :-)
Yours in all things "green"
John Harris
Croydon, Vic
Owner - Wildlife Experiences
Ecologist/Zoologist
Nature Photographer
Wildlife Guide
0409090955
President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria
(www.fncv.org.au)
----- Reply message -----
From: "Greg and Val Clancy" <>
To: "Nikolas Haass" <>, "Philip Veerman"
<>, "'John Graff'" <>, "'John
Penhallurick'" <>, "'Birding-Aus'"
<>
Subject: Australian Magpie
Date: Fri, Jun 28, 2013 15:52
A friend has argued that as the Australian Magpie is not related to the
European Magpie then we can use names of European birds for other native
birds. My view is that we should change the name from 'Australian Magpie'
to 'Ground Butcherbird' which is apparently what it is. I am running and
ducking as I sign off!!!!
Regards
Greg
Dr Greg. P. Clancy
Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
| PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
| 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960
http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:47 PM
To: Nikolas Haass ; Philip Veerman ; 'John Graff' ; 'John Penhallurick' ;
'Birding-Aus'
Subject: Australian Magpie
Forgot one thing. There is another take-home message:
Either split Black BB into Australian BBB and Neu Guinea BBB or leave them
lumped. In the latter case consequently, all three 'white-throated BBs'
(Grey, Black-backed and Silver-backed) should be lumped, too, as these three
seem to be more closely related to each other than the two populations of
BBB to each other.
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
________________________________
From: Nikolas Haass <>
To: Philip Veerman <>; 'John Graff'
<>; 'John Penhallurick' <>;
'Birding-Aus' <>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 6:19 PM
Subject: Australian Magpie
Philip,
No, it's not that simple. Kearns et al. 2013 clearly shows that Australian
Magpie is more closely related to Black Butcherbird than Black Butcherbird
to all other butcherbirds. So, following your 'opinion idea', there are two
options: (1) AM is a butcherbird and all butcherbirds including AM are
lumped into one genus [as proposed by Kearns et al. 2013 and earlier by
Christidis & Boles 2008] or (2) Black Butcherbird is a 'magpie' and
consequently lumped with it in Gymnorhina and the remaining butcherbirds in
Cracticus.
Also very interesting is that some Silver-backed BBs appeared to be closely
related to Grey BB but others to Black-backed BB. It looks like that another
manuscript discussing this more into detail is in preparation.
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
________________________________
From: Philip Veerman <>
To: 'John Graff' <>; 'John Penhallurick'
<>; 'Birding-Aus' <>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:31 PM
Subject: Australian Magpie
It is a formality of moving from being in the same family to being in the
same genus. As all taxa are really expressions of opinion as to where the
dividing line lies, it is not such a big change. Even casually, the
similarity is suggestive.
Philip
-----Original Message-----From:
On Behalf Of John Graff
Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 2:49 PM To: John Penhallurick; Birding-Aus
Subject: Australian Magpie
Hi John,
Interesting, though this was surely this has been on the cards for a while
before this study. It was already listed as Cracticus tibicen by Christidis
& Boles 2008, though I note IOC currently still has it in Gymnorhina (see
http://www.worldbirdnames.org/n-batises.html). Not too surprising given
quite a few similarities in morphology and voice. Ron Johnstone from the WA
museum also mentioned that there are records of Pied Butcherbirds
hybridising with Australian Magpie in central Aus.
Cheers,
John
> From:
> To:
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:20:44 +1000
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Australian Magpie
>
> Hi Friends,
>
> How many people are aware that the Australian Magpie has been
> transferred from Gymnorhina to Cracticus, as a result of Kearns, A.M.,
> L. Joseph, and L.G. Cook (2013), A multilocus coalescent analysis of
> the speciational history of the Australo-Papuan butcherbirds and their
> allies, Mol. Phylogenet. Evol. 66, 941-952.
>
> So it's a Butcherbird!
>
>
>
> Dr John Penhallurick
>
> 86 Bingley Cres
>
> Fraser A.C.T. 2615
>
> Australia
>
> email:
>
> Phone: Home (612) 62585428
>
> Mobile:0408585426
>
> sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt Aeneid Book 1,line 462
> "The world is a world of tears, and the burdens of mortality touch the
> heart."
>
> Magna est veritas et praevalet Vulgate, Book of Edras
>
> The legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people
> whatever they need to have done, but can not do at all, or can not so
> well do, for themselves-in their separate, and individual capacities.
> Abraham Lincoln
>
> "It's good to look beyond the bounds of accepted ideas" James
> Peebles,Princeton University
>
> Please visit my website: http://www.worldbirdinfo.net
> <http://www.worldbirdinfo.net/>
>
> Please visit my blog:
> http://jpenhall.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/john-penhalluricks-blog-1-evi
> dence-
> that-the-ipccs-case-is-a-fraud/
>
>
>
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