Thanks for the clarification Nikolas I guess this all needs more research. I
was under the impression that a collar like that was diagnostic for Collared
Petrel, but I could well be wrong. Therefore suggesting that yes the Sydney
birds could well be Collared Petrel – maybe.
Cheers,
Tony
From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Friday, 24 May 2013 2:09 PM
To: Tony Palliser; 'Ian Southey'; 'Philip Griffin'; 'birding-nz';
'birding-aus'; 'Chris Gaskin'; 'brent stephenson'; 'Jeff Davies'
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] [BIRDING-NZ] FWD: WEST PACIFIC SEABIRD EXPEDITIONS
Hi Tony,
Not sure if your 'raises some doubt as to these birds being Collared Petrel'
refers to the New Caledonian or the Sydney birds.
Anyway, the issue is that the presence of a collar is apparently not diagnostic
for Collared vs. Gould's. Width of the trailing edge and amount of black/white
in the primary tips are supposed to be better field marks.
If the collar was diagnostic (I am not sure if Gould's Petrels with collars
have been reported from the breeding colonies), then both Sydney birds (and a
number of Southport birds seen by Paul Walbridge et al.) should be Collared
Petrels.
In contrast, if width of the trailing edge and amount of black/white in the
primary tips were diagnostic, then both Sydney birds and the birds photographed
during the New Caledonia expedition should be 'collared' Gould's Petrels
(rather than Collared Petrels).
Based on the latter field marks we identified both Sydney birds as 'collared'
Gould's Petrels.
What do you think?
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
_____
From: Tony Palliser <>
To: 'Nikolas Haass' <>; 'Ian Southey' <>;
'Philip Griffin' <>; 'birding-nz'
<>; 'birding-aus' <>; 'Chris
Gaskin' <>; 'brent stephenson' <>; 'Jeff
Davies' <>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] [BIRDING-NZ] FWD: WEST PACIFIC SEABIRD EXPEDITIONS
Hi Nikolas,
I note that your message below raises some doubt as to these birds being
Collared Petrel? Why? I can't see anything wrong with the identification as
Collared?
Cheers,
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Nikolas Haass
Sent: Thursday, 23 May 2013 9:07 PM
To: Nikolas Haass; Ian Southey; Philip Griffin; birding-nz; birding-aus; Chris
Gaskin; brent stephenson; Jeff Davies
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] [BIRDING-NZ] FWD: WEST PACIFIC SEABIRD EXPEDITIONS
Forgot to add a few pictures (all by Raja):
(1) Wollongong, Ulladulla and Hauraki NZSPs
http://www.adarman.com/Birds/Stormpetrels/Storm-petrels
(2) collared (note the lower case 'c') Gould's Petrel Sydney 2010:
http://www.adarman.com/Birds/Petrels-Shearwaters/Goulds-Petrel/16226785_MCf4pS#!i=812226742
<http://www.adarman.com/Birds/Petrels-Shearwaters/Goulds-Petrel/16226785_MCf4pS#!i=812226742&k=NsB32sS&lb=1&s=A>
&k=NsB32sS&lb=1&s=A
(3) collared (note the lower case 'c') Gould's Petrel Sydney 2013:
http://www.adarman.com/Pelagics/New-South-Wales-Pelagics/2013-February-09-Sydney/27944290_xW68HX#!i=2358694275
<http://www.adarman.com/Pelagics/New-South-Wales-Pelagics/2013-February-09-Sydney/27944290_xW68HX#!i=2358694275&k=vBf8mHw&lb=1&s=A>
&k=vBf8mHw&lb=1&s=A
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
________________________________
From: Nikolas Haass <>
To: Ian Southey <>; Philip Griffin
<>; birding-nz <>; birding-aus
<>; Chris Gaskin <>; brent stephenson
<>; Jeff Davies <>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] [BIRDING-NZ] FWD: WEST PACIFIC SEABIRD EXPEDITIONS
Hi Ian et al.,
Congratulations! Yes, this is indeed very interesting and it would be very
exciting if yet another storm-petrel taxon would be described. Let's hope that
the next expedition will be successful at catching a few birds to obtain
morphometric data and DNA samples.
A few comments on the historic birds and some of the birds seen in Australian
waters since 2010 (parts of the following text are copied and pasted from our
discussions of the March 2010 Ulladulla and April 2010 Wollongong NZSPs. Both
birds have been accepted by BARC, the Ulladulla bird with the caveat "Even
though this record was accepted there is a real chance that this bird could be
from an as yet unknown population or even a new taxon so should more
information come to light in the future in this regard it may be necessary to
re-open the case." Sic!):
Some of the birds in Australia accepted as NZSPs by BARC (including the
Ulladulla bird) did indeed show a different underwing pattern from 'classic'
NZSPs resembling more that of a 'New Caledonia Storm-petrel'. We interpreted
this as an unknown moult pattern of NZSP. Size was in most Australian cases
difficult to judge (and there was quite some debate about the size). Jizz and
behaviour, however, spoke in most cases against 'classic' BBSP or WBSP.
Moreover, Stephenson et al. (2008) studied Black-bellied Storm-petrel skins in
several museum collections and stated that 'no bird showed patterning remotely
similar to the streaking seen in New Zealand Storm-petrel'. All Australian
birds I have seen photographs of (including the two I have seen myself) did
show an underpart pattern very similar to NZSP.
Historic 'Striped Storm-petrels':
"See STEPHENSON et al. (2008) for a fuller discussion of the taxonomic
uncertainties that have confused the identity of five museum specimens that
have been variably labelled as Thalassidroma lineata or Fregetta lineata or
Pealea lineata. In summary, three of these specimens would appear to represent
the type specimens of New Zealand Storm-petrel whilst the remaining two birds
are a streaked White-bellied Storm-petrel collected off Huapu I. (Marquesas
Is.) in 1922 and a streaked Black-bellied Storm-petrel collected from Upolu,
Samoa in 1839. However, there is still considerable debate as to the true
identity of the latter specimen but hopefully DNA analyses will help to solve
this taxonomic riddle. Intriguingly, Murphy & Snyder (1952) note in their
discussion of the 'Pealea phenomenon' (the development of variably streaked
individuals in certain storm-petrel populations) is that Peale (1848) recorded
T. lineata frequently in the torrid zone
during the trip to Upolu and that natives on the island 'represented' that the
bird bred high up in the mountains. However, there must be some doubt as to the
identification of the birds Peale observed at sea and the gestured
identifications made by the islanders due to the lack of quality binoculars or
any cameras and problems in communication, respectively. Murphy and Snyder
(1952) said as much by noting that 'both statements fit well with the
distribution and habits of another petrel with which "Pealea" might readily be
confused in the field, namely, Nesofregetta albigularis'."
In conclusion, at this point I think that it is more likely that 'New Caledonia
Storm-petrel' is either a funny moult stage of NZSP or - more excitingly - a
distinct, yet undescribed species (rather than an undescribed form of BBSP).
Hopefully, future research will give us an answer.
COLLARED PETREL:
I am surprised how far the white reached into the primary tips of the Collared
Petrels and how similar the width of the black trailing edge was in Collared
compared to Gould's Petrel. This makes these two field marks somewhere between
very difficult to use and almost useless and could start the discussion again
re the collared Gould's Petrels that frequently turn up in Australian waters.
STEPHENSON, B.M., C.P. GASKIN, R. GRIFFITHS, K.A. BAIRD, R.L. PALMA & M.J.
IMBER (2008):
The New Zealand storm-petrel (Pealeornis maoriana Mathews, 1932): first live
capture and species assessment of an
enigmatic seabird. Notornis 55: 191-206.
MURPHY, R.C. & J.P. SNYDER (1952): The "Pealea" phenomenon and other notes on
storm petrels. American Museum Novitates 1506: 1-16.
HOWELL, S.N.G. & C. COLLINS (2008). A possible New Zealand Storm-petrel off New
Caledonia, southwest Pacific. Birding World 21: 207-209
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
________________________________
From: Ian Southey <>
To: Philip Griffin <>; birding-nz
<>; birding-aus <>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] [BIRDING-NZ] FWD: WEST PACIFIC SEABIRD EXPEDITIONS
These storm petrels are pretty interesting and look
to me like they might be a match for this bird collected in the 1840s,
http://www.sil.si.edu/digitalcollections/usexex/navigation/ScientificAtlases/enlarge_image_a.cfm?id=255
currently regarded as a colour morph of the Black-bellied Storm Petrel.
Finding numbers of them in the
same place is reminiscent of the New Zealand Storm Petrel so they could
actually be a distinct species. Good find and thanks for sharing.
Ian
>________________________________
> From: Philip Griffin <>
>To: birding-nz <>; birding-aus
><>
>Sent: Friday, 17 May 2013 6:49 AM
>Subject: [BIRDING-NZ] FWD: WEST PACIFIC SEABIRD EXPEDITIONS
>
>
>Reposting here from Seabird News:
>
>
>An
eight-person expedition team, led by Peter Harrison, returned from seas
>south of Noumea, New
Caledonia, last week after six days of off-shore
>seabird research. The team included Chris Gaskin, a leading figure in the
>rediscovery and subsequent ongoing research of the New Zealand Storm-Petrel
>whose breeding grounds he helped discover just a few weeks ago. The New
>Caledonian expedition team carried out 16 chum-drops over the six-day
>expedition period in waters ranging from 800 to 1685 metres deep. Included
>in the species photographs at the chum slicks was the mysterious
>storm-petrel originally unearthed during the recent West Pacific Odyssey
>voyages by Chris Collins, et al, and generally referred to as the New
>Caledonia Storm-Petrel.
>
>As yet not formally described, the unnamed storm-petrel was recorded on all
>six days of the expedition, with 21 sightings in total. The chum-slicks
>were deployed to entice the mysterious storm-petrel within range of
the
>same powerful air-powered, four-barrel net guns that had successfully
>captured the recently discovered Pincoya Storm-Petrel *Oceanites pincoyae*,
>in seas off Chile in 2011. The New Caledonia Storm-Petrel, however, proved
>much more difficult to entice within range of the net guns than the Pincoya
>Storm-Petrel. The guns were fired just twice over the six-day period, with
>the net narrowly missing the intended target on both occasions.****
>
>In appearance, the mysterious storm-petrel resembles the New Zealand
>Storm-Petrel but is larger, with proportionately longer wings and tail,
>different flight and feeding habits. Observations over the six-day period
>of the unnamed taxon suggest that it is a member of the *Frigata* genus and
>probably closely related to the New Zealand Storm-Petrel which also has
>prominently streaked underparts and white in the
underwing.****
>
>The New Caledonia seabird expedition was preceded by a week-long expedition
>by Harrison and his wife Shirley Metz to seas off the Solomon Islands where
>several thousand images of the near mythical Heinroth’s Shearwater *Puffinus
>heinrothi* were taken. Images from the Solomon Heinroth expedition and the
>New Caledonia expedition can be viewed at the Seattle-based Zegrahm
>Expeditions website(*http://www.zegrahm.com/blog*<http://www.zegrahm.com/blog>
>)****
>
>Other species seen and photographed by Harrison during the past month in
>the West Pacific include Vanuatu and Beck’s petrels; Magnificent, Collared
>and Gould’s petrels; plus White-bellied
Storm-Petrel.
>
>
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Philip Griffin
>
>
>mobile +64 27 217 9911
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>BIRDING-NZ is moderated by Brent Stephenson
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