Yes, everything I said was in relation to Australian birds only, so no need to
discuss vultures, etc.
And I didn't know there was a precendent for the use in a title. I guess you're
right, it's strictly incorrect usage, but intended so that people know what the
book's about.
Peter Shute
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Veerman
> Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 2:28 PM
> To: Peter Shute
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: What is a hawk - again?
>
> Well about one definition for "hawk" is all those in
> Accipitridae family
> except the eagles? And the Osprey and the Secretarybird and vultures.
>
> I would say yes, but only on the basis that it is a shortening for a
> long list. If it was for all the birds worldwide, it would be a longer
> list. I also note the name of the classic 2 volume set by
> Brown & Amadon
> is "Eagles, Hawks and Falcons of the World" and note that
> Hollands' book
> is "Eagles, Hawks and Falcons of Australia". That is so close
> (as in not
> even changing the sequence, that I strongly suspect a bit of a copying
> happening there, maybe not intentionally. After all there are already
> many books called "Birds of Prey..." Not good to issue a book with an
> identical title as a prior one. You could I suppose also equally say
> "Osprey, Hawks and Falcons" (probably more correct as the
> Osprey is more
> distinct from hawks than are the eagles) or "Harriers, Hawks and
> Falcons" or "Kites, Hawks and Falcons". We have 6 Australian species
> with common group name of kite and zero Australian species with common
> group name of hawk.
>
> Either title could mean the same range of birds, in which case eagles
> are just another group of hawk, which is not wrong. The fact is though
> that eagles are better known as a group to average people and people
> seem to associate with them. (Many countries have used eagles as their
> symbol but few have used hawks). So eagles in the name is thus better
> able to sell the book. And that is what matters in terms of
> choosing the
> title.
>
> Philip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Shute
> Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 1:42 PM
> To: 'Philip Veerman';
> Subject: RE: What is a hawk?
>
>
> Yes, I should have said "and maybe White-bellied Sea-eagle". And does
> this mean that one definition for "hawk" is all those in Accipitridae
> family except the eagles?
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Philip Veerman
> > Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 1:32 PM
> > To: Peter Shute;
> > Subject: What is a hawk?
> >
> > I would say yes to your question. As to list all the group
> names in a
> > title would be too long. Also raises the aspect (and I'm
> not expert on
> > this) that the Red Goshawk, Black-breasted Buzzard and
> Square-tailed
> > Kite are probably more closely related to each other and
> not actually
> > closely related to real goshawks, buzzards and kites. They are
> > probably convergent with those groups. (And that is even
> ignoring for
> > now that Americans use the word "buzzard" for new world
> vultures (that
> > are closer
> > related to storks) and use the word "hawk" for buzzards (Buteo).
> >
> > The only other point is that sea-eagles are regarded as over
> > grown kites
> > (and thus hawks), rather that true eagles. I don't know the exact
> > diagnosis of why that is the case other than that true eagles
> > have fully
> > feathered legs and sea-eagles don't but there probably are more
> > technical anatomical and chemical reasons than that.
> >
> > Philip
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > On Behalf Of Peter Shute
> > Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 8:27 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] What's a hawk?
> >
> >
> > I'm reading "Eagles, Hawks and Falcons" by David Hollands, and I'm
> > wondering about the title. It covers all Australian diurnal
> raptors,
> > but he doesn't specify which species he has classified as an
> > eagle, a hawk,
> > or a falcon, or even discuss the matter.
> >
> > If "falcons" covers the family Falconidae, and "eagles"
> covers Little
> > and Wedge-tailed Eagles, and White-bellied Sea-Eagle, does
> that mean
> > everything else is a hawk?
> >
> > Peter Shute
> >
> > =
>
> -----
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