Re: Fw: [Birding-Aus] raptor prey (was sea eagle observation) now Pereg

To: "Mike Carter" <>,
Subject: Re: Fw: [Birding-Aus] raptor prey (was sea eagle observation) now Peregrine stategy
From: "Colin R" <>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:03 +1000
Hi All

I haven't read all the many emails that have followed this thread so
this may have been raised before and, if so, I apologise in advance.
I noticed early on some discussion re the head of the victim being
removed and an assumption that it was a Peregrine. This may well be,
however, I understand that the removal of the head is also a sign of fox

I wonder how that fits in with the scenarios described. Could it be a
fox and not a Peregrine? I am inclined to think that a broken neck is
much more to be expected as a result of a Peregrine attack, however I am
no expert and have no personal experience of Peregrine attacks. I don't
have any personal experience of fox behaviour apart from seeing what was
presumably fox kills, over the years, in areas where Peregrine activity
was extremely unlikely. 

Anyway - just thought I'd offer the fox thought.


On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:45:25 +1000, "Mike Carter"
<> said:
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Evan Beaver <> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Excellent response Phillip, exactly what I was thinking.
> >>>
> >>> I can't imagine the impact that would be required on a bird in the
> >>> air, so with nothing to provide an opposing force, to dislodge the
> >>> head!
>  Evan, it is obvious that you have not seen a stooping Peregrine hit
>  another
>  bird, especially a big one, otherwise you would know considerable force
>  is
>  involved.
> Even more spectacular is the stoop of a Grey Falcon as they seem to do it
>  from even greater heights. I saw one stoop from several hundred metres.
> Moreover, Evan, you don't have to imagine it. I'm not suggesting that you
>  can do this but the force could be estimated by calculation using a 500g
>  mass stooping at between 160 to 440 km per hour. You will of course have
>  to
>  assume a stopping distance. Nevertheless, it will be substantial.
> And of course there is an opposing 'force' - it's called INERTIA.
> Other than being ripped off, that is one way the head might be dislodged.
>  The sudden acceleration of the body - the whiplash effect.
> Perhaps you hadn't realised that the head rest on your car seat is to
> stop
>  your head moving BACK when your body moves FORWARD having been hit from
>  behind?
> Nevertheless, it is probably rare for the head to be removed in flight.
>  Mike Carter
>  30 Canadian Bay Road
>  Mount Eliza  VIC 3930
>  Tel  (03) 9787 7136
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  Colin Reid
So many birds, so little time...... 

-- - mmm... Fastmail...


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