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from [Unknown] [Permanent Link][Original] 
Posted by: Dan Dugan <>


"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.





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<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><br>
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->John,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Nature Sounds Society members have used LS-10s and LS-11s f=
or many years with great results. I use them with Telinga EM-23 mics, Telin=
ga Clip-ons, and Telinga stereo parabolics. In the Clip-ons each mic has tw=
o parallel 172 capsules. The noise
 level is limited by the mics, not the recorders.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The LS-10 &amp; 11 series wears out by failure of the mic i=
nput transfer switch (in the mic input jack) to make contact reliably. But =
they give years of service.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">-Dan<br class=3D"">
<div><br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Mar 4, 2020, at 10:08 AM, John Crockett <a href=3D"mailt=
o:" class=3D"">
</a> [naturerecordists] &lt;<a href=3D"nature=
" class=3D""></a>=
&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialM=
T; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-wei=
ght: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; t=
ext-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-s=
troke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14=
px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; let=
ter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: n=
one; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px=
; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p=
x; text-decoration: none;" cla=3D"" ss=3D"">
No replies to this on the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span=
><a href=3D"http://groups.io/"; class=3D"">groups.io</a><span class=3D"Apple=
-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>list so I thought I would try here. Apologie=
s for cross-posting.</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p=
x; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p=
x; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo
 nt-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps=
: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; t=
ext-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0=
px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; dis=
play: inline !important;" class=3D"">One
 of my recorders is an Olympus LS-11, which I primarily use with a PBBA bas=
ed on EM172 microphone capsules. The LS-11 PIP input is not ideal for the E=
M172 due to average input impedance (2K Ohms), but it does pretty well. The=
 Sony PCM-M10 (and the much more
 expensive PCM-D100) work very well, due to a combination of low EIN and hi=
gh input impedance (22K Ohms). I don't own either Sony but have tested and =
verified this on the PCM-M10.</span>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-trans
 form: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-wi=
dth: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p=
x; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
I am concerned that my LS-11 is getting old and will not last forever, and =
I have no backup other than a Sony MZRH1 Minidisc recorder, which has an ex=
cellent PIP input, but has mechanical noise and files that are a pain to do=
wnload.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-s
 troke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p=
x; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
Among current-production handheld recorders, which has the best PIP input, =
both in terms of preamp noise and impedance to work well with EM172 capsule=
s (which have an impedance of 2.4K Ohms)? PIP input specs are not often pub=
lished by the manufacturers, so
 this information is hard to find. Raimund's information on<span class=3D"A=
pple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.avisoft.com/record=
er-tests" class=3D"">http://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests</a><span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>appears to be
 up to date, and is very helpful, but does not always clarify (as in the ca=
se of the Tascam DR-100 mk3) whether the measurements are for the XLR input=
, the PIP input, or both. The reference manual for the DR-100 mk3 specifies=
 50K Ohms for the input impedance.
 If Raimund's EIN of -126 dBu applies to the PIP input, then the DR-100 MK3=
 looks to be the best of the bunch, equal to the PCM-D100 at less than half=
 the cost.</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0p=
x; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 1=
4px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; le=
tter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke
 -width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
So, which current-production, mid-priced, handheld recorders have good PIP =
inputs for use with EM172 capsules, based on your experience? Is the DR-100=
 MK3 the best of those? Are there others worth considering?</div>
<br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14=
px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; let=
ter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: n=
one; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px=
; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14=
px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; let=
ter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: n=
one; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px=
; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size
 : 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal=
; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transfo=
rm: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-f=
amily: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-=
variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-positio=
n: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal=
; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations=
-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: inherit;"><spa=
n class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-famil=
y: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-vari=
ant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-po
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">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">John Crockett</div>
<div class=3D"">Southern Vermont</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Listen with the ear of the heart</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</span></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
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one; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px=
; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14=
px; font-style: normal; f
 ont-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; tex=
t-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal=
; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;=
" class=3D"">
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px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; let=
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one; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px=
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ze-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; col=
or: white; clear: both;" class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
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Posted by: Dan Dugan &lt;&gt;
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<tt>&quot;While a picture is worth a thousand words, a <br>
sound is worth a thousand pictures.&quot; R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krau=
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<br>
</tt><br>
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