As an example, here are a few samples of what the DPAs sounded like:
1) when mounted on my shoulders while standing by the N. Sea in the eastern=
UK on the beach at Aldeburgh: https://soundcloud.com/wildsanctuary/aldebur=
gh09dpas
2) And this is what the DPAs sounded like when attached to my mbira (Africa=
n thumb-piano) and tested. This was recorded in 2010 when I got my pair:
https://soundcloud.com/wildsanctuary/mbira-dpas
Enjoy!
Bernie
Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-938-5388
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
TED Global talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_n=
atural_world?language=3Den
On Sep 22, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Gregory O'Drobinak [=
naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
>
> Bernie:
>
> Sorry, but NOTHING can sound as obnoxious, ridiculous and unappealing as =
Donald Trump!
> The world's most mediocre and simplistic recording gear sounds way better=
(and makes more sense).
>
> Stay with us & keep the faith!
>
> Love hearing from you all,
> Greg
>
>
> From: "Bernie Krause [naturerecordists]" <naturer=
>
> To: Nature Recordist Group Group <>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Surround recording (was Boston sounds)
>
> You make some excellent points, Daan. Every one of them noted=85and likel=
y very true under many circumstances.
>
> We just have to remember that every mic system we use and every choice we=
make with regard to field recording protocol ends up being some kind of co=
mpromise; what we pick up at one end, we lose at the other. The result I he=
ar using MS or DMS with the soundscape appearing to be larger than the sum =
of its parts might sound compelling to me but disturbing to others=85a real=
ly fair note you make about the lack of =93faithfulness=94 of the sound. We=
just have to remember that no matter what, we=92re creating an illusion wi=
th this stuff. It=92s a far, decontextualized and fragmented cry from the =
=93real thing=94 or =93authentic=94 or =93genuine=94 or =93pure,=94 another=
point that you make eloquently. This might sound like a contradiction, but=
I figure that if one is looking for those criteria to be met, they need to=
buy a ticket to Disneyland.
>
> I=92m getting older, now, around 750 sunrises and sunsets short of 80 yea=
rs on this diminishing planet. I=92ve lost the top octave of my hearing, re=
placed with a very loud and constant 11k signal as a result of tinnitus, an=
d the physical corpus no longer sustains me on hikes of any distance. So my=
backpack and field expectations are considerable lighter then they were a =
decade ago. I=92m not complaining in any way. Who can imagine enjoying a be=
tter life? But, alas, all of us will come to that fork in the road if we li=
ve long enough. As a result my main field package these days consists of th=
e MKH 30/40 MS combo, a very lite tripod, a SD 722. If my back hurts, I swi=
tch to Chris Watson=92s backup plan, an Olympus LS10 with SD MixPro, and a =
pair of DPA 4060s, which really sound quite sweet=85especially if I play on=
a variation of Dan Dugan=92s Jecklin setup by tying a string around a tree=
the diameter approximating the distance between one=92s ears, and mounting=
the DPAs at 180=B0 opposite. Again, a compromise, but one that saves about=
$33kUSD if I was thinking of replacing that sweet setup with a more elabor=
ate Aachen head. And the result is ____________(ok, good, great, credible, =
acceptable, fantastic, spectacular, real, disgusting, looks and sounds a lo=
t like Donald Trump).
>
> Bernie
>
>
> Wild Sanctuary
> POB 536
> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
> 707-938-5388
> http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>
> SKYPE: biophony
> FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
> TED Global talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the=
_natural_world?language=3Den
>
> On Sep 22, 2016, at 2:37 PM, Daan Hendriks [nature=
recordists] <> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bernie,
>>
>> First of all I should say I have not exhausted the possibilities or capa=
bilities of DMS - I=92ve only personally owned it as a recording system for=
a few months, and have in the past borrowed other people=92s rigs on occas=
ion. I also haven=92t had the pleasure to listen back over an extremely wel=
l calibrated system such as you describe. So my experience is limited.
>>
>> But I have owned and recorded with a high quality (MKH) MS system for ma=
ny years, and developed a personal distaste for using it to faithfully repr=
esent (stereo) soundscapes. While I still love it for recording fx, I=92ve =
moved to different recording approaches for stereo ambient work. The reason=
s are that first of all I felt I could never really trust MS for very wide =
images - the off-axis representation of a sound field, especially around 90=
degrees from the centre, does strange things to the positioning of sound s=
ources. Many times I have noticed that sounds that should be to the far rig=
ht or left, jump to some position that is more to the centre of the image. =
I=92ve been very careful with proper alignment of the capsules, but never b=
een able to fully eradicate this unwanted effect.
>>
>>
>> But maybe more importantly for me is that with an MS soundscape recordin=
g, I=92ve always felt that my own efforts could never transcend exactly jus=
t that - it always sounded like a =93recording=94. There is a mild flatness=
to the end result that bothers me. While I=92ve been able to make many rec=
ordings that I am happy with, and objectively sound good to my ears, there =
always was a lack of faithfulness to how I remembered how the space sounded=
when I was there, recording.
>>
>>
>> This has become especially more clear to me now that I record with DMS a=
nd boundary/baffled omnis simultaneously and then compare the two stereo re=
sults (of course removing the rear channel from the DMS recording). While t=
he MS can still sound very good to me, I am again confronted with this slig=
htly unreal copy of the space I was in, while the boundary or baffle record=
ings come much closer.
>>
>>
>> In my limited experience with auditioning surround recordings made using=
DMS, the same problems have persisted - a sense of a lack of truthfulness.=
While happy with having sound coming at me from the rear channels now as w=
ell, and certainly also feeling that the recordings I made so far are at le=
ast serviceable and sometimes =91good=92, it still feels like I am listenin=
g to sounds coming from a speaker array.
>>
>>
>> However, my experience here goes directly against what you describe with=
the sense of space being larger than the sum of its parts, on a really wel=
l calibrated system. Perhaps that's the crux of my problem/limited experien=
ce with DMS so far, the playback system. Also, I've not tried converting th=
e signal to 7.1 yet. And of course I also do realise that a recording, no m=
atter how well done, will never quite challenge the experience of being at =
a place yourself.
>>
>>
>> So, a lot of words here for essentially what is a very personal and a bi=
t of a woolly observation. I do really like using my DMS rig because it=92s=
so convenient, and my personal results so far are certainly =91good=92, bu=
t yes, not very exciting.
>>
>>
>> I=92d love to hear that installation you created in France however. I kn=
ow there=92s a lot more for me to learn in the world of surround sound.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Daan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Bernie Krause [=
naturerecordists]<> wrote:
>> Daan, you mentioned earlier, that you were not too impressed with double=
-MS. Just curious how it missed the mark for you?
>>
>> I found, for example, that if one has a really well-calibrated playback =
system, the actual illusion of space that the double-MS approach provides s=
eems to be larger than the sum of its actual parts. That=92s especially tru=
e when the audio data is converted to output formats like 7.1=85similar to =
what we did recently in Paris at the Fondation Cartier exhibit (http://fond=
ation.cartier.com/ #/en/art-contemporain/26/ exhibitions/2638/now-on/2708/ =
the-exhibition/) The sound program, derived from MS and double-MS recording=
s, was installed by the folks at IRCAM and the Pompidou Centre in Paris who=
incorporated Meyer Sound=92s new Amie speakers. Might be worth checking ou=
t if you=92re comparing outcomes.
>> Of course, these results are always a matter of personal taste and trial=
& error.
>>
>> Bernie Krause
>>
>> Wild Sanctuary
>> POB 536
>> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>> 707-938-5388
>> http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Daan Hendriks [natu=
rerecordists] < com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use the Rich Peet technique, imaging array in front (Jecklin for me) =
and rear channels wide spaced omnis.
>>>
>>> One thing I've always wondered about, for lack of a better term, DIY su=
rround setups is how you monitor in the field whether the image you are pro=
ducing is 'correct' or satisfactory, or otherwise not going to cause phasin=
g or other issues. I suppose it is a case of trying out multiple setups ove=
r a prolonged period and eventually settling for a positioning and distance=
between the four mics that 'works'?
>>>
>>> Saw prototype Sennheiser ambisonic mic =93ambio=94 at IBC in Amsterdam.=
It=92s made with good electret capsules, at 18 dBA self-noise doesn=92t qu=
ite cut it for soundscapes. I begged for an MKH version.
>>>
>>> Interesting, I was aware of their upcoming Ambeo mic, but hadn't found =
any info yet on the self noise. 18dBA is disappointing. I guess that means =
I'll save myself splashing a couple of grand come this November on this mic=
.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Dan Dugan [ naturerec=
ordists]<naturerecord > wrote:
>>> Changing the thread as I led it astray.
>>>
>>> Daan Hendricks, you wrote,
>>>
>>> > I record in Double MS, though I don't find it a very exciting soundin=
g technique - it is of course very practical however. I tend to do Double M=
S simultaneously with stereo in various baffle/boundary arrays using omnis;=
the DMS then acts as a less impressive sounding but surround version of th=
e stereo tracks recorded with omnis.
>>>
>>> I use the Rich Peet technique, imaging array in front (Jecklin for me) =
and rear channels wide spaced omnis.
>>>
>>> > I've dabbled with Ambisonics recording using Soundfield mics but like=
with DMS, I found the results underwhelming for a variety of reasons, thou=
gh again very practical and does probably come into its own when up sampled=
to higher orders; something I've not had the pleasure yet to try.
>>>
>>> I like having more spacing in my recordings=97at least ear spacing in t=
he front array and more in the rear.
>>>
>>> > I'm still to try techniques such as double boundary arrays for 4 chan=
nel surround, and I'm very curious and hopeful whether the renewed interest=
in ambisonics thanks to VR is going to lead to better sounding convenient =
surround or spatial microphones.
>>>
>>> VR is making ambisonics and various surround concoctions of hot interes=
t in pro audio circles now. Saw prototype Sennheiser ambisonic mic =93ambio=
=94 at IBC in Amsterdam. It=92s made with good electret capsules, at 18 dBA=
self-noise doesn=92t quite cut it for soundscapes. I begged for an MKH ver=
sion.
>>>
>>> > I'm also curious of how binaural can successfully be "converted" to 5=
.1 with Dolby Pro Logic 2, which I believe is what Gordon Hempton does with=
his (stunning) Neumann dummy head stereo recordings.
>>>
>>> I often play my quasi-binaural Jecklin or shoulder mics recordings upmi=
xed to 5.1 through Dolby Pro Logic 2 (music) for pleasure. Sounds great. Im=
portant to distinguish between movie and music modes, movie mode does steer=
ing, music is a passive matrix.
>>>
>>> -Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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