There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Ultamic384K
From: ipelicella
1b. Re: Ultamic384K
From: Dan Dugan
2a. Re: Mic elements in parallel
From: gwapuffin
2b. Re: Mic elements in parallel
From: Telinga
2c. Re: Mic elements in parallel
From: inetd_conf
2d. Re: Mic elements in parallel
From: vickipowys
3. Rural soundscape of northern Slovakia
From: Jonas Gruska
4a. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
From: gwapuffin
4b. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
From: inetd_conf
4c. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
From: gwapuffin
4d. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
From: inetd_conf
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Ultamic384K
Posted by: ipelicella
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 6:01 am ((PDT))
Hi all,
After a long developing period, my friends and I have developed Ultramic384k a
new microphone / recorder that can accept a differential input signal.
This device is intended for wildlife applications.
At the moment only a part of the software is completed, the roadmap is complex
and I'd like to know the opinion of on field users to understand the needs for
specific application and possible improvements.
Here some characteristics:
- 384 khz sampling rate 16 bit (500KHz when recording directly on SD card)
- differential analogic input.
- completely waterproof (all the components are IP68 even if it's not good to
submerge the microphone in water)
- detachable sensor. In this way it possible to connect every possible sensor:
infrasonic, ultrasonic, audio, hydrophone, vibration etc
- the connector for the sensor is 6 pole with the following pins:
* ground,
* 5V,
* digital in digital out(RS232 or I2C),
* differential analogic input
- only 29 mA at full power
The roadmap has the following steps:
- composite USB class (this is the way to see with a single usb connection
both the USB microphone AND the mass storage device, it's no more necessary to
open the microphone to access the SD card)
- autonomous recorder with xml configuration file
- selectable sampling rate (at the moment it is fixed to 384khz)
- Infrasonic microphone
- Hydrophone with specific preamplifier
The reason of my post is to have informations by users about how to proceed
and if is there some specific request and things to consider for on field use.
Here the link of Ultramic384k with the preliminary informations:
http://goo.gl/FsxUvV http://goo.gl/FsxUvV
Thanks
Ivano Pelicella
Dodotronic
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Ultamic384K
Posted by: "Dan Dugan" dandugan_1999
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 4:44 pm ((PDT))
What is the self-noise in the audio band?
-Dan
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 6:01 AM, [naturerecordists]
> <> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> After a long developing period, my friends and I have developed Ultramic384k
> a new microphone / recorder that can accept a differential input signal.
>
> This device is intended for wildlife applications.
>
>
>
> At the moment only a part of the software is completed, the roadmap is
> complex and I'd like to know the opinion of on field users to understand the
> needs for specific application and possible improvements.
>
>
>
> Here some characteristics:
>
>
>
> - 384 khz sampling rate 16 bit (500KHz when recording directly on SD card)
>
> - differential analogic input.
>
> - completely waterproof (all the components are IP68 even if it's not good to
> submerge the microphone in water)
>
> - detachable sensor. In this way it possible to connect every possible
> sensor: infrasonic, ultrasonic, audio, hydrophone, vibration etc
>
> - the connector for the sensor is 6 pole with the following pins:
>
> * ground,
>
> * 5V,
>
> * digital in digital out(RS232 or I2C),
>
> * differential analogic input
>
> - only 29 mA at full power
>
>
>
> The roadmap has the following steps:
>
> - composite USB class (this is the way to see with a single usb connection
> both the USB microphone AND the mass storage device, it's no more necessary
> to open the microphone to access the SD card)
>
> - autonomous recorder with xml configuration file
>
> - selectable sampling rate (at the moment it is fixed to 384khz)
>
> - Infrasonic microphone
>
> - Hydrophone with specific preamplifier
>
>
>
> The reason of my post is to have informations by users about how to proceed
> and if is there some specific request and things to consider for on field use.
>
>
>
> Here the link of Ultramic384k with the preliminary informations:
>
>
>
> http://goo.gl/FsxUvV <http://goo.gl/FsxUvV>
>
> Thanks
>
> Ivano Pelicella
>
>
>
> Dodotronic
>
>
>
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Mic elements in parallel
Posted by: gwapuffin
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 6:52 am ((PDT))
Thanks to everyone for your reply's to my question, micbuilders also confirm
the same thing. Vicki, do you notice the self noise from the 4 cap array when
you have a weak signal?
Gerald
Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: Mic elements in parallel
Posted by: "Telinga" klasstrandberg
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 11:49 am ((PDT))
It depends on the capsules used and how much current they need, mostly
between 0,1mA to 0,25mA.
Two EM172 per channel is maximum into a Sony M10 or 50. Actually,
following Primo specifications, it shouldn't work, but it does. (During
my 40+ years of working with Primo capsules, I have found that their
specifications are unreliable at both ends, they can be much better than
the spec's say, or much much poorer.)
A problem here is that if you Google EM172 pictures, you can see EM172's
with different colors at the back, brown, green, red and white. I
suppose there is a difference between them, but Primo doesn't say which.
Worst case, there are EM172 batches that need more current than Sony M10
/ 50 can provide, if you connect them in pairs.
When two capsules are connected in parallell to a Sony, you should
measure at least 0,75 v.
Two EM172's per channel is safe with all recorders having the standard
2,7k input, like the Olympus models.
Klas
2016-09-02 07:34, vickipowys
[naturerecordists] wrote:
> Klas at Telinga pointed out that only some recorders can supply enough
> power for 4 electret capsules. I know that the Olympus LS10 - 11, and
> Sony M10 will work. Klas has tested many recorders for powering 4
> electrets, but I don't recall all the results
>
> I have compared set ups using 2 electrets, and 4 electrets, to an
> LS10. 4 electrets gave a 3 db stronger signal.
>
> Vicki
>
>
> On 02/09/2016, at 7:55 AM, Dan Dugan
> [naturerecordists] wrote:
>
>> Multiple caps can work like that, the Telinga Clip-On is an example.
>> I don’t know how they’re wired, however.
>>
>> -Dan
>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:06 PM, [naturerecordists]
>>> <
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>> II am getting conflicting information regarding the use of multiple
>>> caps in a mod SASS DIY microphone.
>>>
>>> I have read that wiring two electric caps in parallel would produce
>>> about 3db more noise than a single cap but the signal would
>>> increase by 6db which would give me a better signal to noise ratio.
>>> When recording quite nature sounds that should be desirable.
>>>
>>> A second source tells me that the mic’s do not work that way and
>>> noted that if it did everyone would be building mic’s like that.
>>> The only mic’s that I see on the market use one cap per channel so
>>> he may be correct.
>>>
>>> I would appreciate any feedback from those trained in electronics
>>> or that have made tests to verify these configurations.
>>>
>>> Cross post to Mic builders
>>>
>>> Gerald White
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> Krause.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Mic elements in parallel
Posted by: inetd_conf
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 2:02 pm ((PDT))
Klas, is the only limitation the power to the capsules? I'm curious if a
battery box might address some of that.
I get the feeling this is not all that different from image stacking to reduce
noise in photography. Each doubling of the number of images in the stack
improves S/N by the square root of two (~1.414). It doesn't take a lot to see
improvement, but there's a point of diminishing returns.
Seems like even without the issue of supplying power to the capsules, going
beyond four or so wouldn't buy much. But two isn't a bad idea.
Messages in this topic (7)
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2d. Re: Mic elements in parallel
Posted by: "vickipowys" vpowys
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 5:37 pm ((PDT))
Gerald,
Yes there is slight self-noise but that is probably more the recorder
than the mics. The Sony M10 has slightly less self noise than the
Olympus LS10-11.
On my website I have compared many different rigs, homemade rigs
against pro rigs, and the homemade rigs compare very well.
www.caperteebirder.com
Vicki
On 02/09/2016, at 11:52 PM, [naturerecordists]
wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for your reply's to my question, micbuilders also
> confirm the same thing. Vicki, do you notice the self noise from
> the 4 cap array when you have a weak signal?
> Gerald
Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________
3. Rural soundscape of northern Slovakia
Posted by: "Jonas Gruska" mrqwa
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 7:31 am ((PDT))
Good day everyone,
I would like to share with you my latest work, “Chočské vrchy a
doliny”.
It is a collection of field recordings from Choč mountains in
north-central Slovakia, capturing soundscapes of local villages Kvačany
and Veľké Borové, surrounding meadows and insect population.
All profits will be donated towards environmental protection through
Lesoochranárske zoskupenie VLK.
If you don’t want to pay, just enter 0 as the price.
https://jonasgruska.bandcamp.com/album/cho-sk-vrchy-a-doliny
Regards,
Jonas
✺ ✺ ✺
http://jonasgru.sk
Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
Posted by: gwapuffin
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 5:38 pm ((PDT))
Tom,
I have been looking at the Church Audio battery box and would like to know
what the bias voltage is for the box? Did you need to request a voltage with
the order?
Gerald White
Messages in this topic (25)
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4b. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
Posted by: inetd_conf
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 8:20 pm ((PDT))
I didn't request a specific voltage. I'm pretty sure he's putting out the full
voltage of the battery with a current limiting resistor and a decoupling cap in
the circuit. I can measure this as soon as I get home.
Messages in this topic (25)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
Posted by: gwapuffin
Date: Fri Sep 2, 2016 8:55 pm ((PDT))
we can take this off line if you want but I would like to know the votage
Gerald
Messages in this topic (25)
________________________________________________________________________
4d. Re: Microphone for SONY M10
Posted by: inetd_conf
Date: Sat Sep 3, 2016 12:19 am ((PDT))
It puts out the voltage of the battery. I tested with a 9V that read 9.21V, and
the unloaded bias voltage provided by the battery box was 9.21V. My guess is
with the current limiting resistor it'll draw down some from that value. That's
not a bad bias voltage to use with the EM172.
Messages in this topic (25)
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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