There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
From: elronayellin
1b. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
From: Bryan Celano
1c. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
From: madl74
1d. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
From: vgphil
1e. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
From: madl74
1f. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
From: Bryan Celano
2a. Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
From: J. Charles Holt
2b. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
From: Bernie Krause
2c. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
From: J. Charles Holt
2d. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
From: madl74
2e. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
From: madl74
2f. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
From: Bernie Krause
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
Posted by: elronayellin
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:52 am ((PDT))
I don't really know what I'm doing, and usually just experiment to get results
I like. In this case, I'd probably attach a small recorder to one or more of
the horses, and bury another in the ground (mic exposed) about halfway between
the fence and the camera. Combine that with a shotgun, and layer it all up in
your editor. Sounds like fun!
Elron
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
Posted by: "Bryan Celano" bryanwcelano
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:17 pm ((PDT))
Hi Phil,
In post-production, the way we handle the sound track for this type of shoot is
try to get permission to record the audio on location with the camera crew
(meaning thinking of audio and video as separate tasks). That way, we will
have a duplicate of what they capture in production (perhaps at a higher
quality) and we can later sync to picture to have an idea of what sounds
happened at what time. I would use several recorders with many different mics
in various locations all recording at the same time. In addition, we might
come early or stay later (or even record on a different day without the video
crew or even a separate location and possibly different horses as well) and
record lots of sounds from all angels and perspectives. We put mics on the
horses in several locations (near mouth, on saddle, on rider with recorder) and
have a rider maneuver the horse. if we were lucky enough to be on set, we take
notes to remember the moves that were captured in production and try to
recreate those moves. If we get final picture edits, we make a list of what
moves and sounds are needed (close up, far away, running, walking, running by,
walking by, and on what surfaces: grass, dirt, cobblestone, etc). So we create
a list of moves to make sure we cover those while recording.
We use lots of different mics. Some mics are built into handheld recorders.
Some are external. Some even snap into a smart phone. Mics can handle various
dynamic ranges - some capture the loud sounds while others capture the quiet
details. Parabolic dish (with a cardiod mic facing the dish) and shotguns are
good for focused recordings from a distance.
All that said, I realize this is coming from a post-production perspective and
is probably way over the top for the audio track you are recording. Another
approach is a sound effect library. This is kind of like your music library
but using sounds. There are many sound recordists around the world capturing
everything. Many sell those recordings as SFX libraries. If you do this often
enough and want to stand out from the crowd, an option could be to acquire a
horse library and match those sounds to your final video edit. They could even
be used to embellish what you capture live. There are lots of FREE sounds
online. But those might not cover all of the perspectives you might need. It
also depends on your budget. But once you buy them, you can use them over and
over. Here is an example of a professionally recorded library.
http://www.boomlibrary.com/boomlibrary/products/horses
When doing the recording yourself, try to remember to minimize talking while
recording (I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Quiet on the set!"). And you can
always edit the audio track if there are any talking moments. I'm assuming
you're editing because you're adding the music, correct? So many mics for so
many budgets. I guess start with your budget and then find a mic that's within
that price range. But keep in mind mics last a long time. So depending on
what you are doing with it and what you want to get out of it, in the long run
it might be worth the extra investment. Here's a link to various mics made
specifically for camera mounting as well as some information to compare them:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/audio/buying-guide/shotgun-microphones
I hope this is helpful. Happy recording!
Peace,
Bryan
To:
From:
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:25:53 -0700
Subject: [Nature Recordists] Approaching Stampede :)
Hi all.
I'm new here and not a huge natural sound guy because 99% of my videos are to
music ("Johann Strauss II" mostly, my father loved it).
I bought a new video camera not long ago (Panasonic HC-X1000), so I will be
doing a lot more videos with sound, both instructional (I have a Sennheiser ew
112 & 122-p G3), and natural (not sure on mic yet).
Here is my dilemma. I'm a horse breeder and sometimes I get the opportunity to
get a bit of video that would be a lot better with its natural sounds.
I'm sure you can imagine this would be better with sound!
(my sister took this bit of video and panicked at 0:42 )
Bfd Brokeford Mares June 2011
Bfd Brokeford Mares June 2011 Brokeford mares
coming up to say hello. No cameramen where injured in the making of this video.
Holsteiner sport horses for performance. View on www.youtube.com
Preview by Yahoo
Now I'm not sure what would be the best type of mic's for getting the sound in
this sort of thing. Would a shotgun mic pick up the sound from a good distance
and how would it sound to each side as they went past?
About the only way I think another person could test it would be with 2
vehicles coming toward them.
I would do trial and error myself, but living in Australia I don't have a
return option if I don't like something I buy, I still haven't bought a shotgun
mic for this reason, so I have to get it right the first time. I wish I was
made of money, but I'm not.
I hope someone could give me a little help.
Regard's
Phil
Messages in this topic (12)
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1c. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
Posted by: madl74
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:09 pm ((PDT))
> I'd probably attach a small recorder to one or more of the horses, and bury
> another in the ground (mic exposed) about halfway between the fence and the
> camera.
Elron,
I'd try a small bush or natural object in front of the mic/recorder and hope
the horses would run around it or jump over it. Burying it would risk it
getting stomped on.
My favourite would be a gunmic flat on the ground just below the camera
bottom of frame when you get a "ground effect". Try it out and you may be
surprised.
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
Posted by: vgphil
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:53 pm ((PDT))
Can you join 2 stereo mic's together and have them creating a single sound file?
Like a shotgun mic for the distance to start with, then a "Rode Stereo VideoMic
Pro" for them getting closer and going past.
I sent an e-mail asking about the distance pickup on the " Zoom H5 Handy
Recorder" to B&H. They said, (and I quote) The maximum capture range for audio
signals for the Zoom H5 IS 25ft. optimal range is between 8-15ft. outdoors.
Phil
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
Posted by: madl74
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:33 pm ((PDT))
> When doing the recording yourself, try to remember to minimize talking while
> recording (I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Quiet on the set!"). And you
> can always edit the audio track if there are any talking moments.
Bryan,
I think you are referring to using time code on sound and picture. Otherwise
with any affordable gear, there is no easy way to match picture and separate
sound recordings without brief identifying comments on the camera sound
after the camera run. Otherwise you can have the nightmare of disjointed
shots and sound tracks with little clue to what goes with what.
Where you have to be careful with speech is that this always attract more
interest or distraction than effects sounds, whoever is talking. If you
can't avoid other people's comments, a brief shot of who is talking at least
acknowledges their presence to the viewer.
However you deploy mics, on horses, hooves or whatever, the key sound for
editing is going to be what is recorded with the picture, even if it not not
used in the final mix.
The easy way of matching separate non-timecode picture and sound is to put a
brief comment on sound each time the camera cuts.
As for sync sound, there is no real comparison with the real sound rather
than unconnected wildtracks. And covering up picture with inappropriate
music - as so often heard - is third best in my view.
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: Approaching Stampede :)
Posted by: "Bryan Celano" bryanwcelano
Date: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:37 am ((PDT))
Hi David,
Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond.
I agree that, with or without timecode, a slate is a great way to keep track of
takes and keep things organized. I highly recommend it.
I mentioned the talking because in one of Phil's posts, he mentioned that he
put in music to cover up his talking in the background.
He wrote, "If we don't put music to it, its not going to be very interesting
because what you will mostly hear is us talking." I did not think he was
referring to slates or identifying comments.
I figured if he was adding the music, he must be using some kind of video
editing software. If that software has a couple more audio tracks to play
with, he could easily add additional sounds there. And since the video and the
audio are digital, you don't really need timecode to sync additional sounds.
Just nudge the audio along the track until you think it looks and sounds good.
You can use the source audio as a guide to line it up. It does take practice
to get it just right.
I also agree with you that "the key for sound editing is going to be what is
recorded with the picture". The mic placement I described was to get a nice,
close-mic recording. More for creating a library of horse recordings rather
than capturing live to picture.
You are right - Nothing can compare to the real thing. I was thinking of
Phil's question as "what is the best way to record these horses" and
"suggestions for mics". I assumed since he was a breeder, he was selling the
horses. So I was thinking of it as showcasing the horses to potential buyers.
To me, it was not so much a recording of nature as it was a commercial or
visual brochure. For that, tugging at heart strings is the key - feeling the
strength of the horse and seeing his/her personality. The exact reason he is
adding the music - it helps bring the viewer in to the "story". it creates a
flow and momentum. I feel properly placed sound fx would add to that.
Here's another example: Toward the end of Phil's video, he edited slow motion
shots. I think some close up sounds with added reverb would work great at
those moments. As if you were hearing the sounds from on top of the horse
instead of watching from the sidelines. I'm imagining those types of artistic
choices.
For this kind of project, to me, it's more about storytelling than it is about
capturing the truest or most realistic and perfectly in-sync-to-picture audio
track.
Another track to capture is the ambiant sound of the arena/barn/stable without
the horse. Loop a couple minutes of steady sound under everything. So
whenever there is a cut, it kind of acts like glue on the bottom layer of sound
and you don't hear the cut in the source audio track.
And like I said, the process I described was probably way too over the top for
what Phil wanted to accomplish . But I figured I'd share anyway in case there
was a nugget that helped.
Cheers!
Bryan
To:
From:
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 02:06:30 +0100
Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: Approaching Stampede :)
> When doing the recording yourself, try to remember to minimize talking
while recording (I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Quiet on the set!"). And
you can always edit the audio track if there are any talking moments.
Bryan,
I think you are referring to using time code on sound and picture. Otherwise
with any affordable gear, there is no easy way to match picture and separate
sound recordings without brief identifying comments on the camera sound
after the camera run. Otherwise you can have the nightmare of disjointed
shots and sound tracks with little clue to what goes with what.
Where you have to be careful with speech is that this always attract more
interest or distraction than effects sounds, whoever is talking. If you
can't avoid other people's comments, a brief shot of who is talking at least
acknowledges their presence to the viewer.
However you deploy mics, on horses, hooves or whatever, the key sound for
editing is going to be what is recorded with the picture, even if it not not
used in the final mix.
The easy way of matching separate non-timecode picture and sound is to put a
brief comment on sound each time the camera cuts.
As for sync sound, there is no real comparison with the real sound rather
than unconnected wildtracks. And covering up picture with inappropriate
music - as so often heard - is third best in my view.
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:01 am ((PDT))
I’m listing a copy of Bernie Kraus’s Wild Soundscapes on eBay with the original
CD with the bidding starting at $20 for anyone who might be interested in
picking up a copy. Considering the only other copy listed is asking $350+, I
think it’s a good deal. ;)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/271909648264?
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/271909648264?>
I hope this is OK to mention here. I’ve seen a few people saying they were
looking for a copy, and I didn’t see anything in the rules.
– Charles
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
Posted by: "Bernie Krause" bigchirp1
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:06 am ((PDT))
Just a notice to the group, Charles: the revised version of Wild Soundscapes is
now in press through Yale University Press, having gone through a pretty
thorough process of peer-review. It will be out next spring (I don�t know the
exact date, yet). But it will be pretty complete with a reference to the
naturerecordists group for specific information on technologies across the
spectrum. In many ways, it is a vast improvement and there should be something
in it for everyone.
Bernie Krause
On Jun 22, 2015, at 7:01 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
[naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
>
> I�m listing a copy of Bernie Kraus�s Wild Soundscapes on eBay with the
> original CD with the bidding starting at $20 for anyone who might be
> interested in picking up a copy. Considering the only other copy listed is
> asking $350+, I think it�s a good deal. ;)
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/271909648264?
>
> I hope this is OK to mention here. I�ve seen a few people saying they were
> looking for a copy, and I didn�t see anything in the rules.
>
> � Charles
>
>
>
Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-996-6677
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
TED Global talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:15 am ((PDT))
Bernie,
That's excellent news. Your book has been an invaluable resource to anyone
getting interested in biophonic recording.
As an aside, when this email came in I was listening to Bernie's interview on
NPR back in 2011 and browsing his website at the same time. Gotta love the
Internet! :D
- Charles
(Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Bernie Krause
> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
> Just a notice to the group, Charles: the revised version of Wild Soundscapes
> is now in press through Yale University Press, having gone through a pretty
> thorough process of peer-review. It will be out next spring (I don’t know the
> exact date, yet). But it will be pretty complete with a reference to the
> naturerecordists group for specific information on technologies across the
> spectrum. In many ways, it is a vast improvement and there should be
> something in it for everyone.
>
>
> Bernie Krause
>
>
>
>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 7:01 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
>> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m listing a copy of Bernie Kraus’s Wild Soundscapes on eBay with the
>> original CD with the bidding starting at $20 for anyone who might be
>> interested in picking up a copy. Considering the only other copy listed is
>> asking $350+, I think it’s a good deal. ;)
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/271909648264?
>>
>> I hope this is OK to mention here. I’ve seen a few people saying they were
>> looking for a copy, and I didn’t see anything in the rules.
>>
>> – Charles
>>
>>
>
> Wild Sanctuary
> POB 536
> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
> 707-996-6677
> http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>
> SKYPE: biophony
> FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
> TED Global talk:
> http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
Posted by: madl74
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:53 pm ((PDT))
> I’m listing a copy of Bernie Kraus’s Wild Soundscapes on eBay with the
> original CD with the bidding starting at $20 for anyone who might be
> interested in picking up a copy.
In six day's time it may be well over $100 buy it now.
Charles,
I bought a copy in the UK a few months ago but it was in mint condition so I
haven't opened it. I'm waiting for Bernie's new edition, when at least he
will get the money for it.
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
Posted by: madl74
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:59 pm ((PDT))
> Just a notice to the group, Charles: the revised version of Wild Soundscapes
> is now in press through Yale University Press, having gone through a pretty
> thorough process of peer-review. It will be out next spring
Bernie,
You've got at least one guaranteed sale in the UK. :-)
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
2f. Re: Wild Soundscapes listed on eBay
Posted by: "Bernie Krause" bigchirp1
Date: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:53 pm ((PDT))
That�s more money than I ever made on the damned thing, David. Hang onto those.
They may really be worth something one day!
Bernie
On Jun 22, 2015, at 11:53 PM, [naturerecordists]
<> wrote:
>> I�m listing a copy of Bernie Kraus�s Wild Soundscapes on eBay with the
>> original CD with the bidding starting at $20 for anyone who might be
>> interested in picking up a copy.
>
> In six day's time it may be well over $100 buy it now.
>
> Charles,
>
> I bought a copy in the UK a few months ago but it was in mint condition so I
> haven't opened it. I'm waiting for Bernie's new edition, when at least he
> will get the money for it.
>
> David Brinicombe
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by:
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-996-6677
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
TED Global talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
Messages in this topic (6)
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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