There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Editing Apps
From: amandine.gasc
2a. Question about background levels
From: J. Charles Holt
2b. Re: Question about background levels
From: Bernie Krause
2c. Re: Question about background levels
From: Bernie Krause
2d. Re: Question about background levels
From: J. Charles Holt
2e. Re: Question about background levels
From: Bernie Krause
2f. Re: Question about background levels
From: Peter Shute
2g. Re: Question about background levels
From: J. Charles Holt
2h. Re: Question about background levels
From: madl74
3a. Re: Shure KSM141
From: madl74
4. An interview with Chris Watson
From: J. Charles Holt
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Editing Apps
Posted by: amandine.gasc
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:42 am ((PDT))
What about the app 'Spectrum view'. I am not sure about all the editing options
but you can record and see the spectrogram instantaneously. Plus ti seems that
they added a lot of options in the free version of it. It is pretty cool.
Amandine
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Question about background levels
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:29 pm ((PDT))
I noticed something while listening to the CD that accompanies Bernie Kraus's
book Wild Soundscapes that I'm curious about.
On track 6 with the hydrophone, there's some background hiss or noise. The
level on it drops noticeably whenever there's a vocalization from whatever
underwater creature is being recorded. Also, on track 11, there's some wind in
the background later in the track. Again, its level dips whenever other sounds
take precedence. Is this an acoustical trick my mind is playing on me, or is it
something technical related to the recording?
As always, I appreciate everyone's knowledge and help—it's invaluable to us
"newbies." :)
- Charles
(Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: "Bernie Krause" bigchirp1
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:38 pm ((PDT))
It�s been over a dozen years since the original version of the book was
published and the CD conformed, Charles, and I don�t remember the particulars
of the examples. But I�ll give it a listen and see if I can identify the
problem. In any event a new version of the book, completely updated, is being
published by Yale University Press, and will be out and available in the
spring. So I�m glad you called those issues to my attention, now. If there is a
problem, I�ll correct it. By the way, hang onto that copy. They�re selling the
original versions in mint condition on eBay and elsewhere for nearly $200USD.
Bernie
On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:29 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
[naturerecordists] <> wrote:
> I noticed something while listening to the CD that accompanies Bernie Kraus's
> book Wild Soundscapes that I'm curious about.
>
> On track 6 with the hydrophone, there's some background hiss or noise. The
> level on it drops noticeably whenever there's a vocalization from whatever
> underwater creature is being recorded. Also, on track 11, there's some wind
> in the background later in the track. Again, its level dips whenever other
> sounds take precedence. Is this an acoustical trick my mind is playing on me,
> or is it something technical related to the recording?
>
> As always, I appreciate everyone's knowledge and help�it's invaluable to us
> "newbies." :)
>
> - Charles
>
> (Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: "J. Charles Holt" <>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-996-6677
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
TED Global talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: "Bernie Krause" bigchirp1
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:14 pm ((PDT))
Charles, I�ve just listened to both tracks you mentioned, both w/ and w/o
headphones, and with two different types of speakers (Meyer HD-1s and B&Ws
studio monitors) and do not hear anything like the issue you�re addressing.
What you�re describing usually occurs when a recordist uses �compression� or
�limiting� while recording or, after, during the mix. I have never used either
signal-processing component in any of my recordings or in post-production and
when I look at the signal(s) graphically as a spectrogram, if there was a level
drop of noise related to signal, it would show up, there. It definitely doesn�t
in any of the programme material I�ve heard or looked at so far.
If you could point out any specific time in the tracks where these phenomena
occur, I�ll give it another, more careful shot. But, overall, the product looks
good as promised.
Bernie Krause
On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:29 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
[naturerecordists] <> wrote:
> I noticed something while listening to the CD that accompanies Bernie Kraus's
> book Wild Soundscapes that I'm curious about.
>
> On track 6 with the hydrophone, there's some background hiss or noise. The
> level on it drops noticeably whenever there's a vocalization from whatever
> underwater creature is being recorded. Also, on track 11, there's some wind
> in the background later in the track. Again, its level dips whenever other
> sounds take precedence. Is this an acoustical trick my mind is playing on me,
> or is it something technical related to the recording?
>
> As always, I appreciate everyone's knowledge and help�it's invaluable to us
> "newbies." :)
>
> - Charles
>
> (Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: "J. Charles Holt" <>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-996-6677
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
TED Global talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:07 pm ((PDT))
Bernie,
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. First of all, please
understand that I wasn�t accusing you of any shenanigans�but you did, in fact,
answer my question, even though you didn�t realize it. The problem was entirely
on my end. I had imported your CD into my iTunes library so that I could listen
to it on my iPhone through headphones without having to sit at my computer
(which contains the only CD player in the house). I imported it using Apple
Lossless for good quality, but what I din�t think about was that iTunes Match
was taking the tracks, compressing them, and then making them available on my
phone. Sure enough, when I sat back at the computer and gave a listen, I found
that the tracks sounded perfect, without any of the ducking I was hearing. As I
mentioned, I�m new to this. Lesson learned, and I hope I didn�t raise your
heart rate too much.
I�m very excited about the new edition of the book! Thanks for all of your
contribution, and I was excited to have the author himself respond so quickly!
I was embarrassed, however, to find my faux pas.
� Charles
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:14 PM, Bernie Krause
> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
> Charles, I�ve just listened to both tracks you mentioned, both w/ and w/o
> headphones, and with two different types of speakers (Meyer HD-1s and B&Ws
> studio monitors) and do not hear anything like the issue you�re addressing.
> What you�re describing usually occurs when a recordist uses �compression� or
> �limiting� while recording or, after, during the mix. I have never used
> either signal-processing component in any of my recordings or in
> post-production and when I look at the signal(s) graphically as a
> spectrogram, if there was a level drop of noise related to signal, it would
> show up, there. It definitely doesn�t in any of the programme material I�ve
> heard or looked at so far.
>
>
> If you could point out any specific time in the tracks where these phenomena
> occur, I�ll give it another, more careful shot. But, overall, the product
> looks good as promised.
>
> Bernie Krause
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:29 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
> <> [naturerecordists]
> < <>>
> wrote:
>
>> I noticed something while listening to the CD that accompanies Bernie
>> Kraus's book Wild Soundscapes that I'm curious about.
>>
>> On track 6 with the hydrophone, there's some background hiss or noise. The
>> level on it drops noticeably whenever there's a vocalization from whatever
>> underwater creature is being recorded. Also, on track 11, there's some wind
>> in the background later in the track. Again, its level dips whenever other
>> sounds take precedence. Is this an acoustical trick my mind is playing on
>> me, or is it something technical related to the recording?
>>
>> As always, I appreciate everyone's knowledge and help�it's invaluable to us
>> "newbies." :)
>>
>> - Charles
>>
>> (Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> Posted by: "J. Charles Holt" <
>> <>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Wild Sanctuary
> POB 536
> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
> 707-996-6677
> http://www.wildsanctuary.com <http://www.wildsanctuary.com/>
> <>
> SKYPE: biophony
> FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
> <http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor>
> TED Global talk:
> http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
> <http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: "Bernie Krause" bigchirp1
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:13 pm ((PDT))
No problem, Charles. I�m glad you found the source of the problem. Happy to be
of help.
Bernie
On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:07 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
[naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
>
> Bernie,
>
> Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. First of all, please
> understand that I wasn�t accusing you of any shenanigans�but you did, in
> fact, answer my question, even though you didn�t realize it. The problem was
> entirely on my end. I had imported your CD into my iTunes library so that I
> could listen to it on my iPhone through headphones without having to sit at
> my computer (which contains the only CD player in the house). I imported it
> using Apple Lossless for good quality, but what I din�t think about was that
> iTunes Match was taking the tracks, compressing them, and then making them
> available on my phone. Sure enough, when I sat back at the computer and gave
> a listen, I found that the tracks sounded perfect, without any of the ducking
> I was hearing. As I mentioned, I�m new to this. Lesson learned, and I hope I
> didn�t raise your heart rate too much.
>
> I�m very excited about the new edition of the book! Thanks for all of your
> contribution, and I was excited to have the author himself respond so
> quickly! I was embarrassed, however, to find my faux pas.
>
> � Charles
>
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:14 PM, Bernie Krause
>> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>>
>> Charles, I�ve just listened to both tracks you mentioned, both w/ and w/o
>> headphones, and with two different types of speakers (Meyer HD-1s and B&Ws
>> studio monitors) and do not hear anything like the issue you�re addressing.
>> What you�re describing usually occurs when a recordist uses �compression� or
>> �limiting� while recording or, after, during the mix. I have never used
>> either signal-processing component in any of my recordings or in
>> post-production and when I look at the signal(s) graphically as a
>> spectrogram, if there was a level drop of noise related to signal, it would
>> show up, there. It definitely doesn�t in any of the programme material I�ve
>> heard or looked at so far.
>>
>>
>> If you could point out any specific time in the tracks where these phenomena
>> occur, I�ll give it another, more careful shot. But, overall, the product
>> looks good as promised.
>>
>> Bernie Krause
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:29 PM, 'J. Charles Holt'
>> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed something while listening to the CD that accompanies Bernie
>>> Kraus's book Wild Soundscapes that I'm curious about.
>>>
>>> On track 6 with the hydrophone, there's some background hiss or noise. The
>>> level on it drops noticeably whenever there's a vocalization from whatever
>>> underwater creature is being recorded. Also, on track 11, there's some wind
>>> in the background later in the track. Again, its level dips whenever other
>>> sounds take precedence. Is this an acoustical trick my mind is playing on
>>> me, or is it something technical related to the recording?
>>>
>>> As always, I appreciate everyone's knowledge and help�it's invaluable to us
>>> "newbies." :)
>>>
>>> - Charles
>>>
>>> (Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> Posted by: "J. Charles Holt" <>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>>> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Wild Sanctuary
>> POB 536
>> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>> 707-996-6677
>> http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>>
>> SKYPE: biophony
>> FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
>> TED Global talk:
>> http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Wild Sanctuary
POB 536
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
707-996-6677
http://www.wildsanctuary.com
SKYPE: biophony
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/BernieKrauseAuthor
TED Global talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bernie_krause_the_voice_of_the_natural_world.html
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2f. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: "Peter Shute" pshute2
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:46 pm ((PDT))
Charles, can you explain some more about iTunes Match and what it does? I
assume Apple Lossless format didn't compress the dynamic range, so it would be
interesting to know exactly how they got changed later.
Peter Shute
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
>
> Sent: Thursday, 11 June 2015 8:08 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Question about background levels
>
>
>
> Bernie,
>
> Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. First of
> all, please understand that I wasn't accusing you of any
> shenanigans-but you did, in fact, answer my question, even
> though you didn't realize it. The problem was entirely on my
> end. I had imported your CD into my iTunes library so that I
> could listen to it on my iPhone through headphones without
> having to sit at my computer (which contains the only CD
> player in the house). I imported it using Apple Lossless for
> good quality, but what I din't think about was that iTunes
> Match was taking the tracks, compressing them, and then
> making them available on my phone. Sure enough, when I sat
> back at the computer and gave a listen, I found that the
> tracks sounded perfect, without any of the ducking I was
> hearing. As I mentioned, I'm new to this. Lesson learned, and
> I hope I didn't raise your heart rate too much.
>
> I'm very excited about the new edition of the book! Thanks
> for all of your contribution, and I was excited to have the
> author himself respond so quickly! I was embarrassed,
> however, to find my faux pas.
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2g. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:14 pm ((PDT))
Peter,
iTunes Match is a paid service that Apple offers. What it does is scan all of
the music in your iTunes library (up to 25,000 items). If it matches to a title
they have available in their store, they make that track available for download
on all of your devices that use the same Apple ID. If you have a track that
isn’t available on iTunes (such as the Wild Soundscapes CD) it uploads it to
their servers in 256-Kbps AAC format. More information is available here:
https://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-match/
<https://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-match/>
The advantage of it is that if you have a large library that you want access to
but don’t want to have to store the entire thing on your device, you can access
everything at the touch of a button as long as you have an internet connection.
The downside, if you’re an audiophile, is that the tracks are compressed using
lossy compression—although in those instances, you can still manually sync the
original items to your library.
Let me know if you have any questions about this or anything else Apple
related. I’m a member of the Apple Consultants Network, and this is what I do.
Everyone here is welcome to contact me outside of the group at any time.
There’s a contact page at our website at PEBMAC.com <http://pebmac.com/>. I
don’t want to clutter up the group with irrelevant stuff, but I’m also happy to
be able to give back to the members however I can. :D
– Charles
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 4:46 PM, Peter Shute [naturerecordists]
> <> wrote:
>
> Charles, can you explain some more about iTunes Match and what it does? I
> assume Apple Lossless format didn't compress the dynamic range, so it would
> be interesting to know exactly how they got changed later.
>
> Peter Shute
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > <>
> >
> > <>]
> > Sent: Thursday, 11 June 2015 8:08 AM
> > To:
> > <>
> > Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Question about background levels
> >
> >
> >
> > Bernie,
> >
> > Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. First of
> > all, please understand that I wasn't accusing you of any
> > shenanigans-but you did, in fact, answer my question, even
> > though you didn't realize it. The problem was entirely on my
> > end. I had imported your CD into my iTunes library so that I
> > could listen to it on my iPhone through headphones without
> > having to sit at my computer (which contains the only CD
> > player in the house). I imported it using Apple Lossless for
> > good quality, but what I din't think about was that iTunes
> > Match was taking the tracks, compressing them, and then
> > making them available on my phone. Sure enough, when I sat
> > back at the computer and gave a listen, I found that the
> > tracks sounded perfect, without any of the ducking I was
> > hearing. As I mentioned, I'm new to this. Lesson learned, and
> > I hope I didn't raise your heart rate too much.
> >
> > I'm very excited about the new edition of the book! Thanks
> > for all of your contribution, and I was excited to have the
> > author himself respond so quickly! I was embarrassed,
> > however, to find my faux pas.
>
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
2h. Re: Question about background levels
Posted by: madl74
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:03 pm ((PDT))
Ah, the curse of the hidden compressor/limiter strikes again. All DAC's have
one and some are better than others. The trick is to record well below peak
level and bring it up afterwards in a sound editor.
At work, when digital came in, the BBC dropped the line-up level from -8 to
-14 to keep clear of overloads which tape could cope with better but with
inevitable tape hiss. I never missed that tape hiss. :-)
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Shure KSM141
Posted by: madl74
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:46 pm ((PDT))
> I have seen no comments about it and it worries me a little that the
> self-noice is said to be 14 db.
Arnthor,
Short answer: 14 dB noise from a reliable manufacturer sounds like a real
spec.
I have basic rules of thumb when it comes to specs apart from taking them
with a pinch of salt.
1) If a lot of people buy a fairly expensive mic, it can't be too bad.
2) The more you pay, the truer the specs.
3) Specs are for selling gear, not for using it. All mics add noise, but it
doesn't necessarily sound the same for the same spec.
4) The best specs you will find for noise are about 12dB and when you get to
18dB they sound hissy.
5) Wildlife is not hi-fi, and other specs are more important like handling
noise, robustness, working while wet and not packing up. The KSM141 is sold
as a studio mic and may not be as robust as some others sold as ENG or video
camera mics.
I buy good used mics and get better mics for the same money.
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. An interview with Chris Watson
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:43 pm ((PDT))
I came across this short interview with Chris Watson, famed location sound
specialist for the BBC.
http://www.kitplus.com/articles/Location_Sound_Recording_And_Post-production_with_Chris_Watson/196.html
A few notes on his gear, which is heavily focused on in the article:
* He records at 48 kHz, 24 bit.
* He prefers Sennheiser MKH mics and also uses the DPA 4060s.
* Sound Devices recorder (what else?)
* Nuendo 4 for post
- Charles
(Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)
Messages in this topic (1)
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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