[Top] [All Lists]

[Nature Recordists] Re: R-44 issue

Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: R-44 issue
From: Jez <>

Hi Greg,


firstly, in 35 years of being involved with field recording i've never come=

across this type of issue with a mic / recorder match when using 'decent' m=
ics &

DPA's are not built to be fed into wireless transmitters - that is just one=
the options for them. They are built, these days, to be used with a variety=
different options.

No recorder, not even the cheap Zoom's, have trouble handling balanced or
unbalanced mics (other than issues of the quality of the signal & noise of =
pre-amps). To clarify my experience: I tutor on the Wildeye courses & elsew=
so we get students with all kinds of mics & all levels of recorders. Over t=
years (on these courses & elsewhere) i've used hundreds of different mic /=

recorder combinations & have never come across these issues.

I use Sound Devices gear, so i'm used to spending decent money to get decen=
kit, however its simply wrong to imply that recorders of the level of the R=
isn't very good. In various ways its a better recorder than the FR2LE for
example. By the way, if you're having issues with the FR2LE with unbalanced=

inputs its not the recorder - we never have any issues with them on any
unbalanced mics, piezo based units etc.

As I've tried to explain already, this issue appears to be a very specific =
between the R-44 / R-26 & the DPA's - but it doesn't happen on any other
recorder - from the cheapest (with xlr inputs) to the higher cost units.
Therefore it is not an issue related to the issues you mention as lots of t=
other recorders don't have transformer balanced inputs.


--- In  Gregory O'Drobinak <=
> Jez:
> Please forgive my earlier comment, but I couldn't resist! Really, it was =

> to point out that there are issues with mic preamps and mics that don't m=
> well and this is based on sub-optimal design parameters.
> The DPA mics are not balanced out of the box; they are single-ended outpu=
t mics
> that are designed to be fed into the single-ended preamps that are=C3=82=
=C2=A0built-in to
> the wireless transmitters commonly sold with these mics. I assume that th=
ere is
> a cable adapter that is sold to make the 4060s 'look' like a balanced out=
> but in reality it appears that DPA uses some tricks that fall short of th=
> This is problem #1: the 4060s are not really balanced output mics.
> The second issue is that most inexpensive recorders do not have transform=
> balanced inputs, which can usually handle an unbalanced input gracefully.=
> preamps in my FR-2LE, for example, are 'balanced' inputs but this is done=

> electronically without the use of a transformer. The net result is that u=
> various gain conditions the FR-2LE will not work well at all for single e=
> inputs, such as a piezo transducer or a single-ended (not balanced) input=
> mic or instrument via an XLR connector. Various noises, hum and other art=
> can be heard as the mic gain is increased. So using a single-ended output=

> device, such as the 4060, into the poorly electronically balanced input o=
f the

> R-44 results in mayhem instead of nicety. This has nothing to do with cur=
> draw, but how well the signals are balanced at the input of the recorder.
> The 4060s work well on the SD series because=C3=82=C2=A0I believe that th=
> transformer balanced inputs. I don't have time to go through the theory o=
f all

> of this, but you can research it on the web. Check what Rane has to say a=
> balkanced vs. unbalanced.
> So the rule of thumb is use truly balanced mics into balanced preamp inpu=
ts and
> use unbalanced mics into preamps designed specifically to handle unbalanc=
> inputs. Most manufacturers are not going to tell you how well their balan=
> preamps are going to work with unbalanced inputs. Below a certain (high) =

> point, you get what you paid for.
> Sorry for the bad news.
> - Greg
> ________________________________
> From: Jez <>
> To: 
> Sent: Fri, June 22, 2012 2:50:52 AM
> Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: R-44 issue
> =C3=82=C2=A0
> thanks Grant, according to DPA the r-44 supplies more than enough power t=
> handle even 4 of the DPA4060's connected & these issues appear even if ju=
st one
> is attached. The powering issue also wouldn't explain the pick up of the=

> internal electronics of the recorder (regardless of mic position) & i'm m=
ore &

> more convinced that its some strange way the Roland recorders are built t=
> happens to come up with these issues when using this particular mic. That=
> one chap who also has the R-44 & the DPA4060's has mentioned that his wor=
k fine
> !
> arghhhhhh !
> --- In  "Grant Finlay" <grant@> wrote:
> >
> > It's called "motor boating"
> > The non-techy explanation is that it can't supply enough power to the m=
> >need to roll off some of the bottom end to get around this.
> > Or use an outboard PH48v supply.
> > The SD302 has this issue too with various mics, sanken cs-1 etc..
> >
> > Regards,
> > Grant.
> >
> >

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>

The University of NSW School of Computer and Engineering takes no responsibility for the contents of this archive. It is purely a compilation of material sent by many people to the naturerecordists mailing list. It has not been checked for accuracy nor its content verified in any way. If you wish to get material removed from the archive or have other queries about the archive e-mail Andrew Taylor at this address: andrewt@cse.unsw.EDU.AU