a quick update:
connected the DPA4060's to an R-26 & the same issues are there on that unit=
too. (just to re-clarify: the DPA's are working fine on every other record=
er I have to hand).
Th R-26 is also a brand new unit & after the DPA test I connected some othe=
r mics. Now, I do have sensitive ears but at low gain I could hear some bac=
kground noise (not pre-amp hiss) so I turned the gain up & sure enough ther=
e are electronic signals from the display screen present in the signal ther=
e too, all be it at a low volume.
pre-amp hiss was expected of course but these issues are something else. I'=
ve contacted Roland & they are looking into these issues.
--- In "Jez" <> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> thanks for this - will take a look into the firmware issue. In terms of =
the hydrophones (& contact mics) the best way to deal with these into any r=
ecorder with an xlr or a dual xlr/1/4 inch combo input, is to use an impeda=
nce transforming adaptor from 1/4 inch to XLR.
>
> ta.
>
> --- In Dave Bird <davidjohnbird@> wrote=
:
> >
> > Hello all,=C3=82=C2=A0
> >
> > I can't say I'm an expert in any of this, but I do own a R-44 and have =
had problems with unbalanced inputs and interference/noise - first discover=
ed this problem using Jez' custom built hydrophones.
> > The noise stems from the display screen as far as I can remember - mine=
created a periodic electrical sound=C3=82=C2=A0(almost mechanical, sounded=
quite like a mini disc recorder/player).=C3=82=C2=A0=C3=82=C2=A0Can't seem=
to find the information I had previously read online now, but I have come =
across other people complaining about the same problem.=C3=82=C2=A0
> >
> > One solution was to upgrade the R-44 with this company: http://www.oade=
.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/R44_upgrades.html=C3=82=C2=A0
> >
> > Have also come across suggestions that a firmware update might solve th=
ese problems - I haven't got that far:=C3=82=C2=A0http://www.rolandsystemsg=
roup.com/products/100007
> >
> > Not sure if thats off the mark or at all useful, just thought I'd share=
my frustrating experience!
> >
> > Cheers,=C3=82=C2=A0
> >
> > Dave=C3=82=C2=A0
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jez <tempjez@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 22 June 2012, 10:19
> > Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: R-44 issue
> >
> >
> > =C3=82=C2=A0
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > er....
> >
> > firstly, in 35 years of being involved with field recording i've never =
come across this type of issue with a mic / recorder match when using 'dece=
nt' mics & recorders.
> >
> > DPA's are not built to be fed into wireless transmitters - that is just=
one of the options for them. They are built, these days, to be used with a=
variety of different options.
> >
> > No recorder, not even the cheap Zoom's, have trouble handling balanced =
or unbalanced mics (other than issues of the quality of the signal & noise =
of the pre-amps). To clarify my experience: I tutor on the Wildeye courses =
& elsewhere so we get students with all kinds of mics & all levels of recor=
ders. Over the years (on these courses & elsewhere) i've used hundreds of d=
ifferent mic / recorder combinations & have never come across these issues.=
> >
> > I use Sound Devices gear, so i'm used to spending decent money to get d=
ecent kit, however its simply wrong to imply that recorders of the level of=
the R-44 isn't very good. In various ways its a better recorder than the F=
R2LE for example. By the way, if you're having issues with the FR2LE with u=
nbalanced inputs its not the recorder - we never have any issues with them =
on any unbalanced mics, piezo based units etc.
> >
> > As I've tried to explain already, this issue appears to be a very speci=
fic issue between the R-44 / R-26 & the DPA's - but it doesn't happen on an=
y other recorder - from the cheapest (with xlr inputs) to the higher cost u=
nits. Therefore it is not an issue related to the issues you mention as lot=
s of these other recorders don't have transformer balanced inputs.
> >
> > ta.
> >
> > --- In Gregory O'Drobinak <gmodrobina=
k@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jez:
> > >
> > > Please forgive my earlier comment, but I couldn't resist! Really, it =
was meant
> > > to point out that there are issues with mic preamps and mics that don=
't match up
> > > well and this is based on sub-optimal design parameters.
> > >
> > > The DPA mics are not balanced out of the box; they are single-ended o=
utput mics
> > > that are designed to be fed into the single-ended preamps that are=C3=
=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0built-in to
> > > the wireless transmitters commonly sold with these mics. I assume tha=
t there is
> > > a cable adapter that is sold to make the 4060s 'look' like a balanced=
output,
> > > but in reality it appears that DPA uses some tricks that fall short o=
f the mark.
> > > This is problem #1: the 4060s are not really balanced output mics.
> > >
> > > The second issue is that most inexpensive recorders do not have trans=
former
> > > balanced inputs, which can usually handle an unbalanced input gracefu=
lly. The
> > > preamps in my FR-2LE, for example, are 'balanced' inputs but this is =
done
> > > electronically without the use of a transformer. The net result is th=
at under
> > > various gain conditions the FR-2LE will not work well at all for sing=
le ended
> > > inputs, such as a piezo transducer or a single-ended (not balanced) i=
nput from a
> > > mic or instrument via an XLR connector. Various noises, hum and other=
artifacts
> > > can be heard as the mic gain is increased. So using a single-ended ou=
tput
> > > device, such as the 4060, into the poorly electronically balanced inp=
ut of the
> > > R-44 results in mayhem instead of nicety. This has nothing to do with=
current
> > > draw, but how well the signals are balanced at the input of the recor=
der.
> > >
> > > The 4060s work well on the SD series because=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0I=
believe that they=C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0have
> > > transformer balanced inputs. I don't have time to go through the theo=
ry of all
> > > of this, but you can research it on the web. Check what Rane has to s=
ay about
> > > balkanced vs. unbalanced.
> > >
> > > So the rule of thumb is use truly balanced mics into balanced preamp =
inputs and
> > > use unbalanced mics into preamps designed specifically to handle unba=
lanced
> > > inputs. Most manufacturers are not going to tell you how well their b=
alanced mic
> > > preamps are going to work with unbalanced inputs. Below a certain (hi=
gh) price
> > > point, you get what you paid for.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the bad news.
> > >
> > > - Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jez <tempjez@>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Fri, June 22, 2012 2:50:52 AM
> > > Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: R-44 issue
> > >
> > > =C3=83=C2=82=C3=82=C2=A0
> > > thanks Grant, according to DPA the r-44 supplies more than enough pow=
er to
> > > handle even 4 of the DPA4060's connected & these issues appear even i=
f just one
> > > is attached. The powering issue also wouldn't explain the pick up of =
the
> > > internal electronics of the recorder (regardless of mic position) & i=
'm more &
> > > more convinced that its some strange way the Roland recorders are bui=
lt that
> > > happens to come up with these issues when using this particular mic. =
That said,
> > > one chap who also has the R-44 & the DPA4060's has mentioned that his=
work fine
> > > !
> > >
> > > arghhhhhh !
> > >
> > > --- In "Grant Finlay" <grant@> wrot=
e:
> > > >
> > > > It's called "motor boating"
> > > > The non-techy explanation is that it can't supply enough power to t=
he mics, you
> > > >need to roll off some of the bottom end to get around this.
> > > > Or use an outboard PH48v supply.
> > > > The SD302 has this issue too with various mics, sanken cs-1 etc..
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Grant.
> > > > http://naturesounds.co.nz
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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