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1. Re: SD 7 series recorders with / without an additional pre-amp

Subject: 1. Re: SD 7 series recorders with / without an additional pre-amp
From: "404" quies_still
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:13 am ((PDT))
Hi Jez

Just a thought: since you're recording in "wind-free" environments, why don=
't you use studio condenser microphones, rather than broadcoast/field micro=
phones?
I once recorded the sound of a bucket of icecubes melting for a project. Us=
ed a Neumann TLM that is so sensitive, it picked up details my ear didn't h=
ear.
I have since used that Neumann in other more field recording situations, si=
mply because it's so extremely sensitive.
It makes sense in another way to use microphones originally designed for mu=
sic rather than atmos or voice or film, as you are looking to capture the h=
armonics and musicality of a space...

Peter

Anyhow, curious to hear the group's thoughts...
On 19 Apr 2012, at 18:32, Jez wrote:

> Hi again Martyn,
>
> hmmm, perhaps my explanation didn't quite....explain :)
>
> I have no wish to 'amplify the sound of tranquility', which is counter to=
 what it might be. If I have an approach to places that are still, contain =
quietudes, then its that when i'm lucky I capture moments in these environm=
ents.
>
> My reason for wanting to get more umpff into my 7 series is simply that w=
hen recording in architectural empty spaces its possible to play with very =
subtle tonal shifts in the pick up of the room acoustics if you increase ga=
in. This adds hiss & so if there's a mic than has a higher signal but low n=
oise i'd like to experiment with doing it this way.
>
> For those interested, a good example of this is when recording tuned spac=
es such as early english churches (tuned by sound jars placed in the walls)=
. With something like the mkh mics or some good large diaphragm mics, with =
the 7 series you can just about pick up the extra tone - if you then ride t=
he gain you begin to hear it increase slightly (we're talking a very subtle=
 change here) but there comes a point where the noise of the pre's on the r=
ecorder are too intrusive. I've tried recording these kinds of sounds with =
infra sound mics too & that's interesting, but again these have relatively =
low signals in the first place.
>
> ta.
>
> --- In  Martyn Stewart <> wrote=
:
> >
> > I bought the same soundfield ST450 that Chris uses, I spoke with Chris =
and he said that he was happy with the setup but it is not a mic I would us=
e in a quieter environment for sure. Its self noise is far too noisy, If yo=
u were to crank up that mic all you would be doing is increasing the noise =
that is made of the mic like many others out there.
> >
> > I ditched that set up and bought the Schoeps Double MS set up and found=
 it far superior to quieter environments but I still fail to see the need t=
o jack up the gain like you explain here. One of the more quieter microphon=
es in the field, the MKH-20 and the 8020 will still amplify their self nois=
e if the gain is increased.
> > In 40 plus years of working in sound, I have never really understood th=
e need to amplify the sound of tranquility to what it actually sounds like =
in reality.
> > Of course you couldn't really increase analog recordings in the old day=
s without producing tape hiss.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Martyn
> > *************************************
> > Martyn Stewart
> > www.naturesound.org
> > www.soundofcritters.com
> >
> > Redmond WA
> > 425-898-0462
> >
> > 47.65420118705451
> > -121.98158740997314
> >
> > Make every garden a wildlife habitat
> > **************************************
> > Listen to the Birds and the Bees at
> > http://naturesound.libsyn.org/
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > View a Nature Recordists Blog!
> >
> > http://naturesound.org/Blog/Blog.html
> >
> > http://naturesound.org/this_weeks_recordings/this_weeks_recordings.html
> >
> > Follow me on AudioBoo
> > feed://audioboo.fm/users/31466/boos.atom
> >
> >
> > Listen to my sounds on Facebook:
> > http://tinyurl.com/ye2dw7p
> >
> > My dropbox for files:
> > https://dropbox.yousendit.com/Naturesound
> >
> > P please consider the environment before printing this email
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Jez wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Martyn,
> > >
> > > thanks for the reply. I've been recording for 30+ years so the points=
 you make are all well known. For one thing I prefer not to add gain in pos=
t, simply because of my approach to recording. What interests me is listeni=
ng & so I actually press 'record' less & less, but I record a lot of very q=
uiet sounds - inc. empty spaces. The reason I want to get some extra umpfff=
 into my 7 series recorder is mainly due to the fact that even with the bes=
t mics I find that some situations I could do with a bit more gain (without=
 extra noise) to give a rich impression of certain acoustic spaces. I'm int=
erested right now in the relative volume of certain microphones & how they =
impact on the ability of the acoustics to find places within the signal.
> > >
> > > I tutor here on the Wildeye courses, along with Chris Watson & so i'm=
 lucky to have the opportunity to test all kinds of mics - inc. the soundfi=
eld mics, which are very good indeed but i'm searching still for mics that =
get me closer to that indefinable 'something' that I want to feel when I li=
sten through them.
> > >
> > > ta,
> > >
> > > Jez
> > >
> > > --- In  Martyn Stewart <mstew@> wrot=
e:
> > > >
> > > > I must admit that in all the time I have used the Sound Devices ser=
ies of recorders, I have never had to worry about using extra gain, The Sen=
nheiser MKH series microphones are calibrated to my needs, I use one specif=
ic setting on the rotary pots and this has been sufficient from day one. Wh=
at could you possibly be recording that you need to jack up the gain so muc=
h? I use a 552 mixer when i'm on location with a film crew only. Recording =
nature, I try to listen with my ears first of the ambient sound and then se=
t the headphone gain to match what I am hearing. If you need more gain late=
r, increase the gain in post production.
> > > >
> > > > With direct cabling from MKH30/40, after setting MS for stereo, I s=
et my Tone Level on the 722/788t at -30dB. Then set input level at 56.7dBA =
(by adjusting the rotary pot just to the left of the "menu" button and view=
ing the momentary reading on the screen). Because the Sennheiser have virtu=
ally no variation between mics in the MKH series, this provides a standard =
calibrated input level of 64dBA relative to a -30dB meter reading and will =
results in accurate assessment of signal ranges for later analysis.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>










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