I think this has more to do with expectation management which is only learn=
ed in the field with experience. What works well in the backyard may be tot=
ally useless once in the field, we learn from the disappointments - I have =
plenty to report but will leave it there.
-M
--- In "Microscopica" <> =
wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I hear what you're saying and can understand its use as a 'cheat sheet' f=
or other recordists who for whatever reason are unable to experiment or int=
erpret manufacturers' specifications to achieve the best match. Unfortunate=
ly, this results in a compromise, enabling the use of mismatched microphone=
s & recorders by the unwary. What then happens is disappointment with the c=
aptured audio and belief that the recorder being used is unsuitable for tha=
t particular use; not helped by frequent comments aired about how noisy one=
recorder is to another, when in fact it's the use of an inappropriate micr=
ophone system.
>
>
> --- In "Mike Rooke" <yg@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > " I find it a rather pointless exercise expounding the virtues of a =
particular
> > microphone system with different audio recorders. It would be far bette=
r finding
> > a microphone system which provides the best match for a particular reco=
rder."
> >
> > This was the point of posting the information, to match the mics (in th=
is case
> > from Primo and Shure)
> >
> > "Reference comments made about better noise levels at particular gain s=
ettings,
> > it is known that with modern amplifier chips, the best signal to noise =
ratio
> > will be when the amplifier is being fully driven, ie. at maximum gain."
> >
> > Thats true when using insensitive mics or recording 150 Ohm resistors.
> >
> > "Both the PCM-M10 & LS-XX discussed have virtually identical lowest equ=
ivalent input noise[EIN (A)] at approx. -122dBu with maximum gain settings =
'High 10', but the LS-XX
> > can run with a 60% 'hotter' microphone input than the PCM-M10"
> >
> > I understand this as meaning there more preamp gain with the LS10 than =
that provided by the M10.
> >
> > "hence the need
> > for a different microphone system for the LS-XX compared to the PCM-M10=
"
> >
> > My understanding is that the gain of the LS-XX needs setting to give a =
comparable recording level vs the same content on the M10. If the content i=
s a reference tone you can get a good indication that level x on the LSxx m=
atches level y on the M10.
> >
> > "The possible reason for capturing better low noise recordings (for low=
level
> > ambience) at particular gain settings far removed from high gain, requi=
ring the
> > use of post-edit-amplification to make up the difference, is most proba=
bly due
> > to the fact that the microphone is not best matched to the recorder."
> >
> > True which is why the level values were mentioned to give some idea for=
readers to use as a reference when using the same capsules on different re=
corders.
> >
> > Eyeballing a VU meter doesnt quite work if the recorder drops below or =
fails to show
> > the dB value in a quiet location, turning the gain up may result in cli=
pping once things get going - hence we learn what works for a particular re=
cording system and mic. That process is repeated if the recorder changes ev=
en if the mics remain the same. In the case of recorders that do meter corr=
ectly the above is all hot air of cause :)
> >
> > -M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In "Microscopica" <microscopica@>=
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In "Mike Rooke" <yg@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since we were discussing the Shure WL183 / MX391O:
> > > >
> > > > The Sony D50 set to gain 5 will show -1dB Full scale re 94dB. with =
the Shure capsule.
> > > >
> > > > The low noise omni (notice I still don't give the part number?) cap=
sules require gain 4.3 to show the same, thats about 10dB less.
> > > >
> > > > For future reference when using the low noise omni capsule, a gain =
of 3 is sufficient for the Sony D50 to capture the full dynamic range, add =
the limiter and its very versatile.
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > > > In terms of the LS10, 94 dB will show -1dB full scale at gain level=
2 when HIGH sense is
> > > > used, and around -23dB FS at the same level with LOW sense for the =
capsule I measured
> > > >
> > > > Thus LOW level 3 gives around 20dB headroom above 94dB. OR without =
reducing the noise floor, gain level 7 will show -5dB Full scale re 94dB SP=
L @ 1Khz.
> > > >
> > > > The Sony D50 is still quieter / has a more pleasing noise when usin=
g the low noise omni capsules than the Olympus LS10. Which i suspect is due=
to its lower pip voltage which results in a less sensitive capsule.
> > > >
> > > > In summary LOW and gain 7 is sufficient for field recording if ther=
e is no sound pressure above 100dB.
> > > >
> > > > I prefer Ribbon Mics when the SPL gets going.
> > > >
> > > > BR
> > > > Mike.
> > > >
> > > I find it a rather pointless exercise expounding the virtues of a par=
ticular microphone system with different audio recorders. It would be far b=
etter finding a microphone system which provides the best match for a parti=
cular recorder. Reference comments made about better noise levels at partic=
ular gain settings, it is known that with modern amplifier chips, the best =
signal to noise ratio will be when the amplifier is being fully driven, ie.=
at maximum gain. Both the PCM-M10 & LS-XX discussed have virtually identic=
al lowest equivalent input noise [EIN (A)] at approx. -122dBu with maximum =
gain settings 'High 10', but the LS-XX can run with a 60% 'hotter' micropho=
ne input than the PCM-M10, hence the need for a different microphone system=
for the LS-XX compared to the PCM-M10.
> > > The possible reason for capturing better low noise recordings (for lo=
w level ambience) at particular gain settings far removed from high gain, r=
equiring the use of post-edit-amplification to make up the difference, is m=
ost probably due to the fact that the microphone is not best matched to the=
recorder.
> > >
> >
>
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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