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Re: Aspen Grove with the Jeklin Disk

Subject: Re: Aspen Grove with the Jeklin Disk
From: "hartogj" hartogj
Date: Wed Oct 6, 2010 10:35 pm ((PDT))
> Yes, the known trait of front-rear confusion. What are you asking 
> about it exactly?

Hi Rob,
Good, there is name for it, "front-rear confusion." And I think I must have it:)

> Are you thinking that almost equal amplitude sensitivity to the rear 
> contributes more to the effect of the bass being more centralized 
> around the speakers with Jecklin? It could some above 500 Hz, but 
> response to the lowest octaves I'm discussing is very 
> omni-directional for most arrays.

I guess I missed your original point. I think I was listening to something a 
bit different than you - certainly above 500 Hz. More a hiss from the left that 
seamed to encroach, I am guessing it was aspen leaves in the wind. The 
localization seamed missing, just left channel but no sense of distance. I am 
not trying to knock Kevin's recording here: I think the recording as nothing 
less than amazing. 

> Front-rear confusion typically becomes a concern when one wishes to 
> locate sound sources accurately opposed to capturing as many events 
> as clearly as possible.  For example SASS produces (a) significantly 
> lower amplitude when the sound arrives at angles greater than 90 
> degrees off axis. (b)  tonality that is noticeably warmer and (c) 
> depth cues (such as reflections from surfaces in front of the array). 

It is also worth considering when trying to capture a perspective that just 
sounds natural.  Even the SASS with MKH 20's will produce an unnatural bounce 
back effect with direct flyovers. Think a billiard ball bouncing of the rail - 
not very natural for a mallard duck. Lang Elliot pointed that one out to me 
several years back a a NSS workshop. 

> M-S arrays with a cardiod mid mic produce some of the (a) and (b) 
> effects.  X-Y and ORTF with cardioid mics do as well.
> Front-back distinction with Perpendicular to Boundary arrays is a 
> challenge and therefore these arrays are good when wants to pick-up 
> sounds from the rear with almost equal clarity. Blumlein is very good 
> for this too.  Jecklin Disk and Spaced Omnis  produce less of the (a) 
> and (b) effects than M-S and X-Y in my opinion.

Maybe off axis attenuation and/or coloration have a place in reducing 
front-back confusion. I certainly have played with that with NT1-A's, though 
I'm not sure I made much progress. More practical perhaps is careful scrutiny 
on location for potential off axis problems.

John Hartog


> Large diaphragm mics are inherently more directional and tend to 
> produce less front-back confusion (except for Rode NT2000's which are 
> actually hotter at 90 degrees than at 0 degrees in omni mode).



  Rob D.
> 
> --
>








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