Rob Danielson wrote
"If you started off with a pair of DIY EM172's with an H2, you could
still use it as low profile mobile rig"
Sadly, in my experience, the H2's external mic input is considerably noisier
than the internal mics are. For quiet subjects, I can recommend the H2 only for
use with its internal mics.
Zoom is about to release the H1 audio recorder.
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=2053
Several vendors are advertising it for $99. Let's hope that the deficiency in
the external mic input is remedied in the new model.
--oryoki
--- In , Rob Danielson <> wrote:
>
> At 10:50 AM -0700 6/30/10, Patrick Cooper wrote:
> >
> >Thanks again for the valuable info, Rob.
> >
> >I have been considering the Zoom recorders such as the H2. I was
> >reading quite a thorough review of the H2 recently. The reviewer
> >made several recordings of various subjects with the H2 (mainly
> >musicians.) However, at one stage, he mentioned that he recorded a
> >chorus of crickets. Due to the soft sounds produced by the crickets,
> >he had to turn up the gain a fair bit and as a result, got quite a
> >poor / noisy recording. I guess this is the norm with audio
> >equipment when using a moderate amount of gain to try and record
> >soft or distant sounds?
>
> Quite a few pocket recorders, the H2 being one, are best-suited for
> recording robust sounds like music, close mic'd voice. loud settings
> and loud effects. Yes, when one increases the gain, the self-noise in
> the mics and sometimes the "input noise" of the recorder's mic preamp
> becomes more and more audible.
>
> >
> >Though I'm curious how a Hi-MD Mini Disc recorder would fare in a
> >similar situation to the H2 with the gain pushed up.
>
> Much better, but one would need to use low-noise or very low-noise
> external mics for the Hi-MD to really shine.
>
> >Imagine a scenario where the Zoom H2 and a Hi-MD recorder were both
> >recording the sounds of birds calling from a bit of a distance away.
> >The Zoom H2 was making use of it's own internal microphones and the
> >Hi-MD recorder was equipped with a good quality, low noise
> >omni-directional microphone. Because of the distance of the birds,
> >the gain in both recorders has to be increased a reasonable amount.
> >Which would be the noisiest recorder as the result of the increase
> >in gain?
>
> Raimund has not measured the input noise in the H2 recorder so we
> don't know for sure how the noise it produces at high gain compares
> to the self-noise of its built-in mics. Its sufficient to know,
> however, that if you need to use high record gain, the noise produced
> by the H2 will obscure quite a bit detail and space in the
> recording-- neither are pleasurable with nature subjects and spaces.
> The stereo imaging of the all of the built-in arrays is marginal
> compared to what recordist can do with full size standalone stereo
> arrays-- especially for subjects at distance as you propose.
>
> > Would it be a close match or would there likely be one clear winner
> >and loser? What I am interested in overall is obtaining clean audio.
> >A lot of the time, when i have recorded audio in the past, either
> >with tape recorders (or with my current Mini Dv camcorder) I tend to
> >get a continous, undesirable sound that accompanies the sounds that
> >I want to record.
>
> I know all too well what you are describing. Poor sound quality is
> very detracting and unnecessary. You are now on track to much better
> recordings.
>
> >
> >Incidentally, it would also be interesting to read a comparison test
> >between the H2 and a Hi-MD recorder both fitted with an external mic
> >(the same brand and model low noise microphone) - recording soft /
> >distant sounds with the gain pushed up. Then see which is the
> >noisiest out of that particular comparison. However, I did read that
> >the mic inputs on the H2 are a bit poor and prone to unwanted noise.
> >As a response to this finding, the Zoom corporation admitted that
> >this recorder was optimised for using the internal microphones. Have
> >any other H2 owners experienced this?
> >
> >Because of the number of microphones on the H2 and their placement,
> >do they behave like one omni-directional microphone? Ive been quite
> >curious about that one.
>
> In my opinion, for far subjects, the internal mic array of the H2 has
> a hard time positioning the subjects in the sound sound stage (its
> very narrow) and there's very little sense of depth.
>
> >
> >Regarding external microphones, I note that you give an approximate
> >price of $300 for a pair of good quality, low noise omni-directional
> >microphones (roughly $150 for each individual microphone.) At that
> >price range, what would be a good choice (brand and model) for a mic
> >that is quite sensitive and has a wide frequency range (and all the
> >usual requirements for recording birds) that could run on a Hi-MD or
> >other recorder's own internal batteries?
>
> Yes on all accounts. The 4022's are almost identical to the 3032's
> mentioned on that page. There are other options to research as well.
>
> Having observed a number of people get their feet wet and then
> promptly dive in when they can get the results like the ones they're
> dreaming of,.. I'd definitely consider investing enough to get a
> system with real promise opposed to investing 50% or 35% of that and
> getting a system that will have significantly poorer noise and stereo
> imaging performance. To date, I don't recall a single complaint about
> 3032's or 4022's as per sound capabilities.
>
> >
> >Rob: "You can get better quality for the money by buying bare mic
> >capsules if you or a friend is handy with a soldering gun."
> >
> >Is this the same as that 'how to make your own microphone' as
> >revealed on the Wildlife Sound Reording Society's website or
> >something similar? Quite amazing really that you can make your own
> >mic...just hope I or the soldering expert would have enough patience!
>
> Very similar. Check our FAQ for other links. http://tinyurl.com/278ey93
>
> Incidentally, most sound recordists grow into having several rigs. If
> you started off with a pair of DIY EM172's with an H2, you could
> still use it as low profile mobile rig when you get very low noise
> mics in the future. Most recordists I know who managed AT3032's ->
> Art Phantom II -> Hi-MD rigs for years now use either a Fostex FR-2LE
> or a Sony D50 recorder. The M10 is okay too, but it has some
> additional input noise noise compared to Hi-MD (both at high gain)
> when used with very low-noise mics.
>
> Your question regarding an ambience rig with mics and recorder for
> $200 total is still waiting answer on the FAQ. Is this still what you
> need to know or have you loosened up your budget some? Rob D.
>
>
>
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