I just wanted to offer a public 'thank you' to everyone who responded to my=
question - and particularly to Marco and Rob for the very informative reco=
rdings and sonograms.
Clearly both recorders have their merits and their drawbacks, and there is =
no 'perfect' answer.
But I have just ordered the M10, which I think (hope...) offers the best co=
mpromise for my needs and budget.
all the best
Steven
--- In Rob Danielson <> wrote:
>
> Hi--
> Marco was kind enough to make some more recordings for us. Here's a
> link to a sonogram movie featuring a robust bird call recorded with
> both recorders using the internal mics and short clips of the room
> tone recorded at highest gain so we can get an idea of the sound
> qualities of the self-noise generated by the built-in mics.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yeycmyo (3mb download only) Play with QT
> compatible movie viewer of your choice.
>
> It appears that a substantial part of the self-noise of the internal
> mics in the D50 is in the lower range of the audio spectrum where its
> quite audible and effective at masking acoustic space. To my ears, I
> would say the noise considerably more objectionable than that
> produced by Shure WL183's [measured 22 dB(A) self-noise].
>
> The M-10's self-noise is higher in the spectrum and less
> objectionable, but its still quite audible in recordings of quieter
> settings. Below is a link to an MP3 from simultaneous,
> tripod-mounting recordings Marco made. The D50's recording comes
> first followed by the M10's and they alternate.
> http://tinyurl.com/ycbudua
>
> The Sony PCM-D1 has also earned kind remarks for the performance of
> its built-in mics, unfortunately, its not in this comparison.
>
> Based on previously-posted samples, I was encouraged that Sony's
> built-in mics could be a grade or two above the sound quality of the
> internal mics/pres in most other hand-held recorders. They may be,
> but in practice, their usability of the built-in mics for nature
> recording is still limited to close, robust sounds and louder spaces
> unless is happy bringing home a good deal or hiss and lower range
> masking. The D50 seems to be more handicapped than the M10. A
> body-worn pair of Shure WL183's http://tinyurl.com/yeove3k or Klas's
> new clip-on omni mics are two, good options if you want to
> noticeably improve recording quality and still have ease and
> low-profile.
>
> Marco wrote to me that he always carries along his good, low-noise
> mics that can be quickly plugged-in. As Oryoki pointed-out,
> recordists who use dishes and other very sensitive mics/sources can
> sometimes get by with much less record gain and dramatically reduce
> noise in these recordings.
>
> As we know from Raimund's measurements, the input noise of the mic
> preamps in both recorders is low enough to support the use of low
> noise mics and arrays which may be more important if one is making a
> longer term investment. Rob D.
>
> =3D =3D =3D =3D
> At 2:11 AM -0500 3/19/10, Rob Danielson wrote:
> > Marco, if you could, take the recorders outside and record some
> >ambience when you get a chance. The gain can be set to get -12 to -20
> >peaks or in that range. Again, make sure all filters are off. I'm a
> >little concerned by what could be lack of bass in the M10, but
> >another test will tell us more. Thanks! Rob D.
>
>
> --
>
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