Mark,
I'm not sure which recordings you are listening to, but if they are
the ones posted to various video production sites I caution about the
applicability to nature recording.
Nature recording is done in much quieter conditions as a rule, and
the self-noise if far more of an issue than can be judged from the
kind of close proximity vocal tests typically favored by the video
sites. For nature recording the 6-8db difference in self-noise is
significant. The dB scale is non-linear so 6dB lower self-noise is a
50% reduction. Looking at it the other way 16dB is double the
loudness of 10dB. I initially purchased a AT897 but quickly
realised the self-noise was very intrusive and upgraded to a K6/ME66.
I can assure you the differences in self-noise and usability for
nature recording can not be described as close in any sense of the word.
cheers
Paul
On 30/03/2008, at 8:08 AM, Mark Forry wrote:
> Rob,
> Thanks for the information.
> Based on the charts and the $ I want to spend at this point, the
> mics of
> choice are probably: 1 Sennheiser K6/ME66, 2. Rode NTG-2 or the 3.
> Audio
> Technica AT897. I am leaning to the Rode NTG-2 since it is more in
> my price range. But I am still considering what is right to do.
> I have listened to recordings of all 3 and the Sennheiser appears
> slightly better with the Rode a close 2nd.
> Again... thanks... I will share my final purchase decision later.
> Mark
> --- In Rob Danielson <>
> wrote:
>>
>> At 10:54 PM +0000 3/28/08, Mark Forry wrote:
>>> After much internet reviewing, I chose the Marantz PMD 620 recorder.
>>> I am looking to make
>>> bird song recordings to help identify birds in the field that I
>>> cannot see, but hear only. I have
>>> Thrayer's birding software that provides excellent song recordings
>>> for comparison.
>>>
>>> I made my field recorder selection based on 2 sources: oryoki's
>>> recent naturerecordist review
>>> and the transom.org review. Considering what I was looking for it
>>> seemed to be the best
>>> compromise.
>>>
>>> I am now looking for an external shotgun microphone in the $50-200
>>> range. This area is
>>> more troublesome for me to sort out. I have read I should get the
>>> best microphone I can
>>> afford. However, I want to start out with little in it until I
>>> understand how I am using the field
>>> recorder better and know more about what is needed.
>>>
>>> Your recommendations are welcome. My understanding is that this
>>> recorder does not have
>>> phantom power so keep this in mind when making your recommendations.
>>> My 2 primary
>>> uses for the field recorder will be for birding in the field and
>>> doing podcasts. I am new to
>>> the audio field so bear with me as I get acquainted with what is
>>> required. Plus, I am new to
>>> naturerecordists.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance....
>>
>> Hi Mark--
>>
>> Sorry if my answer to your mic selection question seems overly
>> technical. The question you ask is very common. I've tried to provide
>> some "tools" you and others might be able to use in understanding
>> your options.
>>
>> The role of "noise" is more important in nature recording because the
>> sounds and spaces we record are often much quieter than the usual
>> fare of voice, music, and loud sound effects/environments. Sadly, we
>> are finding that many of the newer, "point and shoot" recorders are
>> much better suited for the later subjects.
>>
>> With a noise floor of -112dBu, the mic premp in the PMD 620 is
>> noisier than what many would consider very well suited for nature
>> recording. (Raimund's chart lists the noise floors of many popular
>> recorders http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm) This noise is
>> produced by the mic preamps in your recorder when you raise the gain
>> to high levels to record soft subjects. As a result of this high
>> level of noise in the PMD 620, the number of "well-matched" mic
>> choices is fairly limited. Of course, you can invest in "better" mics
>> you can use with a "better" mic pre/recorder in the future. Many
>> readers on this list would probably recommend this having purchased
>> mics that turned out to be noisier than they hoped they would be.
>> There's lots of bad advice out there!
>>
>> Manufacturers specifications ("specs") are not to be relied upon
>> 100% but they do provide a good reference. The mics in the White Area
>> on the below chart are a good match for your PMD 620 (with its noise
>> floor of -112dBu). The mics in the Pink Area will add a significant
>> amount of noise to your high gain recordings. The mics in the Blue
>> Area would be an investment for using with a "better" mic
>> pre/recorder in the future. The Brown mics, no matter where they
>> fall, have high self-noise that make them less than ideal for
>> recording ambience in quiet locations.
>> http://ad2004.hku.nl/naturesound/RobD/Table3_RaneNotes148_-112dBu.gif
>>
>>
>> For reference, below is another chart with mic options for a Hi-MD
>> recorder with its -124 dBu noise floor. The mics in the White Area on
>> the below chart are a good match for a Hi-MD recorder. The mics in
>> the Pink Area will add a significant amount of noise to your high
>> gain recordings. The mics in the Blue Area would be an investment for
>> using with a better mic pre/recorder in the future. The Brown mics,
>> no matter where they fall, have high self-noise that make them less
>> than ideal for recording ambience in quiet locations:
>> http://ad2004.hku.nl/naturesound/RobD/Table3_RaneNotes148_-124dBU.gif
>>
>>
>> Please note that if one is only interested in recording loud sounds,
>> even the brown mics can produce very acceptable results because your
>> record levels (and noise) will be low.
>>
>> There are many experienced recordists on this list who can recommend
>> and discuss specific mics. My charts might help you refine your
>> search.
>>
>> I just used model numbers on the charts. On this page,
>>
> http://www.uwm.edu/~type/audio-art-tech-gallery/pages/MicSpecs-
> Cover.htm\
> l
>> you'll find the mics, by model number, with the manufacturers'
>> self-noise and sensitivity provided. In some cases, the numbers have
>> been changed to match tests that folks have conducted.
>>
>> To avoid the predicament you are in, I suggest researching mics first
>> before buying a recorder. Unfortunately, the opposite seems to be the
>> rule. The mics are the most critical component in a recording system.
>> Rob D.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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