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Re: Plesiomorphic, vs the AOU; [set rant on]

Subject: Re: Plesiomorphic, vs the AOU; [set rant on]
From: Syd Curtis <>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:38:06 +1000
Marty Michener quoted Doug as writing:

>>
>> Plesiomorphic traits are traits that have been passed down through earli=
er
>> taxa. They arose in animals which evolved prior to the animal in questio=
n,
>> and they continue to manifest themselves, usually because they are
>> effective. In the sense of bird (and other animal) communication, we oft=
en
>> find certain calls that several different, but related, species use - th=
is
>> is a plesiomorphic call - it came from a common ancestor.
>
And in discussing that statement, Marty added a note of caution:

> So, although what Doug says sounds fair enough for my purposes, he is
> assuming the plesiomorphologicality of sound traits, and it is going to g=
et
> trickier and tricker before AOU is done.  Taxonomists got where we are no=
w
> by always assuming certain characteristics are non-adaptive (conservative
> characteristics). I think we sound-people should now be more and more
> suspicious of convergence, especially in evolving communication
> systems.=20

Now there are two species of lyrebirds (and two only, apart from a fossil),
clearly closely related.  They both use the same intense alarm call - an
extremely loud, ear-piercing shriek.  On rare occasions I have walked aroun=
d
some obstacle blocking the view and come face to face with a lyrebird.
Believe me, that shriek gives one a hell of a shock.  I can well imagine it
causing a predator to pause for just that fraction of a second the lyrebird
needs to escape.

I wonder if Menura tyawanoides (the fossil species)  was their plesiomorphi=
c
ancestor?  Bit hard to tell from one petrofied leg bone, what its alarm cal=
l
sounded like.

Anyway, the situation seems to fit what Doug and Marty are on about ... or
am I assuming plesiomorphologicality (what a lovely word!) where none
exists?

Cheers

Syd   :-)



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