naturerecordists
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Re: HHB MDP 500 Portadisc

Subject: Re: Re: HHB MDP 500 Portadisc
From: Walter Knapp <>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 02:53:03 -0500
jonnykontroletti wrote:
> Hello Walt!
> Thank you very much for your detailed info.  You are right, ebay 
> sometimes tends to be strange when it comes to the final price.  Did 
> you ever see a Portadics for sale elsewhere?  The strap and carrying 
> case do not matter much to me either.  However, I was hoping not to 
> spend more than $900 for the recorder.

I've given up trying to accurately predict a auction. I usually research 
the item, decide what I can and want to pay and bid accordingly. 
Typically I make two bids these days, my first goes in about 35 seconds 
from the end, my 2nd, if needed at about 5 seconds. I don't like to get 
into bidding wars, give people a minimal chance to see my bid. I went to 
the double bid because there are those using automated software that 
responds by upping you one bid increment at a time. The first bid is to 
smoke them out. The second is so close to the end to prevent them 
finding out from ebay and bidding in time.

I've seen maybe a couple others for sale, it's rare. Most folks spending 
that kind of money think carefully about it.

Best you can do is figure your price and watch. If it stays within your 
price, bid. Can't really say to wait for the next one as they are so 
uncommon. It could turn up tomorrow, or a year from now. I think you 
would be extremely lucky to get it for $900. Just remember you can 
probably buy a new one around $1400 if you hunt around.

You will want a strap, this is not recorder to be trying to hand carry 
in the field. I made mine, pictures here:
http://frogrecordist.home.mindspring.com/naturerecordists/strap01.jpg

   Next, I have to look for a
> good microphone that is suitable for nature reccording.  The same 
> seller also offers a Sennheiser 816T on ebay (currently at $1!).  Do 
> you happen to know anything about that mic? 

I have two of the MKH-816 P mics. Those take regular 48 volt phantom 
power (the kind the portadisc supplies, as does most modern pro 
equipment). The T mic has a special connector that's more common in 
Europe, and takes a different powering system that's 12 volts and wired 
differently. The T model mics tend to go cheaper as a result. Both mics 
are excellent, results once powered are good. But for a T Powered mic 
you either need to get or make a power supply, which is a extra thing to 
be carting around and feeding batteries.

The MKH-816 is one of the finest shotgun mics. Excellent sound, very 
good directivity. It was replaced by the MKH-70, which is a little more 
sensitive, a bit quieter mic noise. (and almost never turn up on Ebay, 
and if do are hard fought over)  The MKH-816 is 2' long, needs a good 
suspension and wind protection. In Rycote gear the suspension and wind 
protection full kit will cost as much or more than the ebay price of the 
mic. Even on ebay Rycote stuff is bid fairly high so many auctions have 
to be passed up for each one bid. One of the places where building it 
yourself can really pay off. Take a look here at one of my MS setups to 
see what's involved, though this setup is mostly Sennheiser parts:
http://frogrecordist.home.mindspring.com/docs/ms_mkh30+60.html
That's 5 different ebay auctions and many months to accumulate.

  Is there any other mic
> you could recommend?  I also looked at the Sennheiser K3 with various 
> heads (ME 80, ME 40, ME 6?).  I liked that you could basically  
> change the characteristic of the mic by simply changing the head.

The K3's are a older powering module, the batteries can be hard to find. 
The K6 series are the current ones.

   I
> don't know anything about the quality though.  

ME mics are a step down from the MKH mics. It's not a huge one in sound 
quality, but it is a step. ME series are good mics. Better than most pro 
mics for the price. If you have only been around consumer mics they will 
be fantastic.

> Sorry to bombard you with all of these questions.  I would just love 
> to get the equipment worries out of my head, be content with what I 
> have and finally start to focus on recording ;-).

Don't worry, you will always have new equipment to lust after. 
Concentrate on getting a minimal setup, then get out and record and you 
can start drooling over new goodies. Like all such things nature 
recording is a sinkhole for money. The equipment lasts well, however, so 
you can think in terms of near lifetime on some of it.

   I just want to
> make sure that I will not ourgrow my investment in the near future.  
> I guess thats why I liked the Portadisc.

I generally don't recommend the Portadisc for beginners. It's a fine 
recorder and easy to use, probably easier than cheap ones. But it is a 
lot of money. My usual advice is to know you are into this for the long 
term before sinking big money into it. That said, the Portadisc is a 
very good investment in your recording. It will take you a long time, if 
ever, to outgrow it's capabilities.

Before running out hog wild on mics it might be well to think about what 
you want to record. How close it will be to you, how loud, individuals 
calling, or whole environments? There is no universal mic, and it would 
be good to start with one that will cover a lot of your basic interests. 
  As you gain experience you can then add capability buying new mics.

Another question is Stereo or Mono? Stereo requires two mics that are 
well matched to each other. They are not always the same models, 
depending on the technique used. Even if not buying a whole mic system 
at first it's well to think about how things will fit together. For 
instance, if going into MS stereo setups as I have, there is no figure 8 
mic in the ME series, and it's essential for MS stereo. The MKH series 
does have one, the MKH-30. It's characteristics match the rest of the 
MKH series well. It matches a ME series mic less well as far as sound 
quality. This was one of the reasons I went into the MKH mics.

If your aim is to record environments, soundscapes, then stereo does it 
better than mono, is virtually essential. If your aim is to record 
individual calls from single animals, stereo is very nice, but not as 
necessary. Stereo is obviously more money, more complex.

If you will always be recording close, there are a wide variety of mics 
that will do fine. As the distance increases it quickly becomes two 
choices. Shotgun mics or Parabolic mics.

  Shotgun mics don't actually pick up the sound directly in front of 
them any better, what they do is cut out more of the side sounds. This 
allows you to amplify the front sound more, and thus pick up from 
farther. However, as you increase amplification you run into the noises 
produced by the mic's own electronics, or your mic preamp's electronics. 
So you have to invest in high end low noise microphones and preamps to 
gain reach. Such equipment is expensive. The interference tube 
technology in a shotgun mic is somewhat frequency dependent, so each 
design colors sound it's own way. There is a lot of what you like, or 
what you are used to in choices. Shotgun mics are the common mic in 
films, so people are pretty used to their sound. There are stereo 
shotgun mics, but the quality ones are unbelievably expensive, so for 
stereo either two are paired, or you use the MS technique.

The alternate, parabolic mics, use a reflector to provide sound gain 
before reaching the mic. You gain distance by this even before you start 
amplifying. The reflector's shape also makes it's pickup highly 
directional. On top of this built in gain you can go into amplification 
and so on for even more distance. A parabolic mic is going to ultimately 
give the greatest distance for the money spent. I have picked up barking 
treefrogs from distances as great as a mile with my Telinga Pro V. 
Faint, but still usable for identification purposes. The Telinga, BTW is 
available as a stereo model, which is what I use most of the time with 
it, the DAT Stereo mic for it. Parabolic mics, because of the nature of 
sound, tend to increase higher frequencies more than lower ones. Not a 
big issue recording calls, but can become a issue using one to record 
soundscapes.

Note there is another reason why Sennheiser mics are so common in Nature 
Recording. They have a deserved reputation for being rugged and pretty 
immune to moisture. Some other brands of mics last minutes out in humid 
environments (though most recover if brought into a dry environment and 
allowed to dry out).

Note that each mic will color the sound, put it's own signature on it. 
So will the environment you record in. A mic that one person hates 
because of it's sound may be loved by another for the same reason. Try 
not to let others choose your mics. Get advice, opinion, sure, but if at 
all possible listen to the output from the mics recording the sorts of 
things you are interested in.

Mics and mic choices are a endless subject.

Walt




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>
Admin

The University of NSW School of Computer and Engineering takes no responsibility for the contents of this archive. It is purely a compilation of material sent by many people to the naturerecordists mailing list. It has not been checked for accuracy nor its content verified in any way. If you wish to get material removed from the archive or have other queries about the archive e-mail Andrew Taylor at this address: andrewt@cse.unsw.EDU.AU