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Re: Re: Distance to sound source

Subject: Re: Re: Distance to sound source
From: Marty Michener <>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:34:07 -0400
At 06:59 PM 10/20/02 -0400, Steve wrote:
>Am I missing something? If I can get decent bearings with one pair, and
>decent bearings with another (displaced) pair, won't the bearings intersect
>at the source of the sound?
>
>I was hoping to use my full complement (4) of microphones and record two on
>a DAT and two on a PC, synchronizing the sounds with  clicker of the sort
>animal trainers use (I already got one for 59 cents, so don't tell me its
>hopeless!) Clicking at each mic would give all the inter-mic distances,
>enough to determine their relative locations, (assuming constant speed of
>sound).
>
>My plan was to try and chart the motions of a Red-eyed Vireo, say, over a
>fairly long time.
>
>Any hints, suggestions, instructions, corrections, comments from all you
>knowledgeable types would be greatly appreciated...
>
>Thanks,
>
>Steve P

This assumes both a life in a plane, and an ideal preservation of phase 
relations as they arrive at each mic. The latter are notoriously screwed up 
by digitizing the signals.  MANY multi-channel digitizers actually strobe 
from one input to the next, and perform a SERIAL or SEQUENTIAL 
sampling.  Later analysis usually presumes samples made at the SAME 
TIME.  This presumes a much higher degree of synchronicity among channels 
than a clicker is going to give, I would bet.

It also implies that you know the physical layout of the mics with some 
precision, as Walt has suggested.  One would have to be able to input that 
into the editor.

But I am far from an expert, let alone "a knowledgeable type".  I am more 
of a "hopeful", and perhaps a "somewhat experienced" type.

All this was once explained to me by Mike Collins, who, for "the Navy" 
developed a retro-fitted computation scheme, called beam-forming by 
simulated annealing, which works with arrays of, I think,  four or more 
mics.  I think two mics ideally gets you a cone of bearing, and two more 
gets a second cone, which if mics are exactly in a line, intersect on a 
single line that wanders through space, but at slightly varying distances, 
to get precise.  You need another degree of freedom, I may be wrong, here, 
another mic, to get it to a point, to produce A DISTANCE or pair of 
distances, and six to resolve the remaining ambiguity.

But Mike Collin's algorithms are public domain, and my math and time 
availability at this point are very limited.   I would love you to add to 
my previous posted list of ideal desired tools your editor could provide a 
retro-computation system for location!

Mike's system actually back-calculated to produce a pure channel from each 
separate source in the environment, based on bearing and distance.  This 
would provide a really superior noise removal, if and when we can implement 
it!  All the energy of noise would be allocated to its own point source 
channel, and removed from each bird-specific channel.

I have referred to this study two or three times on this group, previously 
over the years.

cheers,

Marty Michener
MIST Software Associates
PO Box 269, Hollis, NH 03049


coming next week : EnjoyBirds - software that migrates with you.




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