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Re: Selecting Preamp Gain

Subject: Re: Selecting Preamp Gain
From: "bbystrek" <>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:46:02 -0000
Walter,

Am I still sort of right - that the goal would be to ideally get the 
peak within a given recording to just reach 0dB for no more than the 
one or two samples in a row?  If I understand, your clearly telling 
me that that much dynamic range is completely unnecessary (and 
perhaps even not readily later reproduced).  Even worse, I see from 
some previous posts that the input on the Sony DATs has historically 
been well known to "block up" when hit too hard - something the mic 
limiter circuitry will obviously do if enabled.

My electronic measurment experience reminds me that if you push any 
of the components, microphone/preamp/ or A/D to their rails, your 
bound to enter the territory of non-linearities where everything 
starts to degrade.  Almost without exception, things are always 
designed for optimized performance well within the normal operating 
range - not at the endpoints.

I have not quite figured out how to read the individual sample values 
using any of my audio editing software to see where the level meters 
on the DAT recorder trip.  It seems the common definition of "clip" 
is three or more consecutive samples at 0dB.  I'm thinking of taking 
a look on the web for how a wav file is formatted and just take a 
quick look directly using my all time favorite programming 
environment - National Instruments LabVIEW (primarily optimized for 
automation of electronic test instrumentation).  While I don't 
currently have a clue how to build a plug-in for any of the editing 
software, LabVIEW is rich in signal processing and analysis functions 
that could come in handy.

Anyway, thanks for all of the great thoughts you provide within this 
group.  I learn something almost every day from your posts.

Brian Bystrek


--- In  Walter Knapp <> wrote:
> bbystrek wrote:
> > 
> > What is the correct way to establish a preamp gain setting?  My
> > current understanding is to always set it as high as possible 
without
> > clipping to maximize dynamic range.  Is this correct?  Of couse 
it's
> > difficult to deal with digital overs in post recording editing, 
and
> > from everything I have read, you have to test your recorders level
> > indicators to see how they actually work to see where clipping is
> > actually occuring - given that they don't all necessarily 
represent
> > the output of the digitizer, but sometimes a value derived from 
the
> > amplifier.
> 
> That's the traditional recommendation for analog tape, and is not
> justified for digital. In fact it's dangerous. Analog required this 
as
> it's dynamic range was limiting, and it's clipping was pretty soft.
> Always set your levels with a pad, digital has plenty of dynamic 
range
> to spare. For a starting point with frogs try 20 dB down. You can 
narrow
> that, but only if you monitor while watching the level meter for a
> while. That's problematic with DAT like you use as it should not be
> paused long.
> 
> Yes, it's well worthwhile testing you level indicators to know what 
they mean.
> 
> What counts for digital clipping is the level of the analog signal 
being
> fed into the A/D converter. And making sure you don't increase the 
gain
> in any of the digital processing steps.
> 
> > Am I right in also concluding that the perceived noise generated 
by
> > the microphone is unaffected by gain setting of the preamp (given
> > that input sections are typically much much quieter than mics) 
such
> > that if the final recording were later amplitude normalized, the
> > quality of the recording is the same?
> 
> The mic noise is amplified right along with the signal you want by 
the
> preamp. Only way to get gain without increasing the mic noise too 
is to
> do it before the sound reaches the mic, like is done by a parabolic 
mic.
> 
> That's why if you opt for a shotgun mic, you have to spend bucks on 
a
> real low noise one. It has no extra gain over a regular mic, so you 
need
> to use a preamp to get gain for increasing reach. The preamp has to 
be a
> low noise one too, don't assume a preamp is low noise, not all are.
> 
> Walt
> 



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