Stephen - Do you have any insight I could feed into the below discussion? I had thought Birdata was intended to be a kind of ongoing Atlas. Needs a lot of analytical effort as acknowledged. Moreover, the fact
is that eBird, haphazard or not, is where the main observer effort is being directed.
I think this kind of discussion among concerned people is going on across Australia right now.
Perhaps an easier question is David’s, which I have inserted just below.
Geoffrey
From: Canberrabirds
On Behalf Of David McDonald (Personal)
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 8:42 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
Do we really need more primary data collection, or is the priority to make better use of what we have already? Perhaps BLA could consider more frequent production of the State of Australia’s Birds report, instead?
Or has The State of Aust Birds morphed into The Action Plan for Australian Birds, published at 10-yearly intervals, the next due in 2030?
Just a thought - David
Hi Mark
I agree that a coordinated process like the Atlas would be a much more effective way of getting a national picture of bird population trends and it is the trends that we should be concerned about. Species can be recorded but it is the
numbers that is the critical aspect and we (AWSG and the Asian Waterbird Census that Wetlands International does in SE Asia)) have been seeing this with declining numbers of shorebirds (with over 40 years of data collected) and waterbirds more broadly.
I am happy to canvass the idea of another Atlas with both Kate and Sean Dooley and see what they think. It is of course a big exercise but if done and done properly we would get a much clearer national picture of bird population trends
which also has the benefits of giving governments and other decision makers solid information. Part of any Atlas survey must have funds for the essential analysis of data collected plus other data that could be included.
Regards
Alison
From: Canberrabirds
On Behalf Of Mark Clayton via Canberrabirds
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 9:44 AM
To: Martin Butterfield
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
Martin,
Unfortunately the collection of data by eBird and other such organisations is haphazard at best as everyone seems to have their own way of doing things. I know of several scientists with excellent statistical skills
who consider the way eBird collects data is basically crap (their comment, not mine) so how do you get around issues like that. Doing a National Atlas using the exact same system as the last atlas at least adds some stability to collecting the required data.
Mark
From: Canberrabirds
On Behalf Of Martin Butterfield via Canberrabirds
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 8:43 AM
To: Mark Clayton
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
Given the amount of data around in eBird (both Nationally and for the COG AOI) the problem is going to be getting people with the analytical skills to extract and interpret the data. Mounting
a further data collection enterprise seems a waste of time.
Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
https://mallacootaweatherwildlife.blogspot.com/
From: Mark Clayton <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 8:37 AM
To: Chris Davey <>;
; 'Philip Veerman' <m("pcug.org.au","pveerman");">>;
Subject: RE: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
Good morning Alison,
I meant to reply to your original email but got tied up with other things. Like Chris I think this is an excellent idea and happy that I suggested it. Several comments to my original post missed the point, it is not
just in certain local areas where things are rapidly declining, it is a national problem. I have been saying this for a long time now but keep getting the same reply “but people are still recording species x, y and z” but just don’t realise that their numbers
are way down.
If Birdlife Australia doesn’t want to do a National Atlas then perhaps COG could/should redo the local one that was done quite a few years ago now. Things like the GBS and Blitz weekends don’t really show what is happening
long-term and across broad areas, they only cover very small areas at best.
Mark
Sent from
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Hi Alison, I think that would be an excellent suggestion as long as the protocol is the same as the previous Atlas.
Chris
From: Canberrabirds
On Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2023 2:44 PM
To: 'Mark Clayton'; 'Philip Veerman';
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
Hi Mark and others
It might be a very good time to propose to BirdLife Australia that an Atlas of Australia would be a very god idea sitting on both the Blitz and the Aussie Bird Count. I have just met with the new CEO of BLA and would be happy to raise
this suggestion with her if it is felt this would be a good thing to do.
Regards
Alison
Alison Russell-French OAM
PO Box 101
Curtin ACT 2605
M: +61 419 264 702
From: Canberrabirds
On Behalf Of Philip Veerman
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 6:18 PM
To: 'Renée Ferster Levy' ;
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Re BirdLife Atlas
Hello Renee,
Sorry, I think you got your words mixed up. I did not suggest that
BirdLife publish a new Atlas. I think you should credit Mark with the suggestion. I just suggested it “is or would be, a huge task”. By that I meant it is something that would
warrant a lot of proper thought as to financial and logistic priorities and it is not my role go beyond that comment.
Philip
From: Canberrabirds
On Behalf Of Renée Ferster Levy via Canberrabirds
Sent: Monday, 23 October, 2023 5:13 PM
To: Canberra birds
Subject: [Canberrabirds] Re BirdLife Atlas
Hi,
Re Philip's and Alison's suggestions for BirdLife to publish a new Atlas ... they did the Action Plan for Aust Birds 2020 (published 2021), based on Birdata.
https://www.publish.csiro.au/book/7905/
Here's a summary
http://datazone.birdlife.org/sowb/casestudy/the-action-plan-for-australian-birds-2020-reveals-that-one-in-six-are-nationally-threatened
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/sundayextra/13678536
It would be great if COG members contribute the superb systematic data collected to Birdata, which can be analysed for conservation. There is so little in there from the ACT and your observations would enrich and fill gaps in the knowledge
so much!
It is also incredibly easy to use Birdata, to extract your own data, and to explore by species, location, date range, season, survey type and more.
https://birdata.birdlife.org.au/home
(I think there's a data sharing agreement with ebird, maybe with COG?, but it might be ages until data comes across.)
Cheers
Renée
From: Canberrabirds <>
On Behalf Of Mark Clayton via Canberrabirds
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 12:50 PM
To: Philip Veerman <>;
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
I know that Philip is a very good birder and for him to say that things are not good bird wise just backs up what I said in an email to Nicki this morning and have been commenting on for quite a few years now. Climate
change with the two extremes in weather we have had, coupled with the excess removal of trees, both natural and planted, for the expansion of suburbia and on farmland, and the general “cleaning up” of paddocks has had a major impact on birds EVERYWHERE. I
have been surveying birds both professionally and as an amateur for nearly 60 years. I think it is now time for Birdlife Australia, if it wants to continue as supposedly Australia’s premier birding organisation, to redo an “Atlas of Australia’s Birds”, I think
they will get an almighty shock as to just what is happening. I can remember 30 – 40 years ago driving down country roads and seeing Willie Wagtails and Yellow-rumped Thornbills fly off the road, other Thornbill and fairy-wren species doing much the same.
Now the occasional Magpie-lark, Apostlebird and a lot fewer White-winged Choughs are to be seen. There are some birds on the ACT”s Threatened Species list that I, and I know a lot of others, consider should not be on it, and a lot more that should. We are
finding the same is happening with our bird banding site near West Wyalong, an area that still has a lot of native vegetation in the general area. I was surprised to find species like the Noisy Miner, Common Starling and Common Myna were in very few numbers
in areas I have surveyed in previous years.
Be interested in hearing people’s comments.
Mark
Sent from
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From:
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2023 10:31 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Canberrabirds] Blitz wind up
I did 10 sites over the 2 days, with about 95 km travel, which is the most travel I have done for birding for a very long time but probably a lot less than most
other people. Even though pleasant being out, the low numbers of birds in species and individuals is getting concerning. For example at Castle Hill which in most years it has been so full it has been a struggle for just me to get to find most of what is there,
yesterday I had to look pretty carefully to come up with the list I did. Though it was nice to be there. Previously it has had Hooded Robin, Brown Treecreeper, Diamond Firetail, Leaden Flycatcher, White-browed Woodswallow, none of them left (at least within
the area I look at).
Good bits were a Tawny Frogmouth on nest with at least one chick in I think exactly the same spot on a tree as last year (or was it 2 years ago?). A pair of kestrels,
male seen hunting and female seen flying around a group of trees so presumably nesting in one of them, although the tree they were nesting in 2 years ago has now fallen down. Unlike 2 years ago I was not accosted by a woman who saw me at Kambah Pool and I
thought she wanted to know what I was looking at (the above mentioned Tawny Frogmouth on nest) but she saw I was standing still and rushed at me and launched a barrage of preaching Jesus at me. The car park at Kambah Pool on Saturday afternoon was totally
full of cars, even along the access road.
Otherwise fairly ordinary.
Philip
