Re: FW: FW: [canberrabirds] Something for a rainy day (2)

To: Geoffrey Dabb <>
Subject: Re: FW: FW: [canberrabirds] Something for a rainy day (2)
From: Martin Butterfield <>
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 01:23:19 +0000
Interestingly when growing up in the UK a mnemonic used to be  "By Pol, Tre and Pen you will know Cornish men."  Is is thus really the case that Cornish pasty makers were Welshmen who got confused over which bank of the Severn to follow?

On 3 December 2017 at 12:18, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:

So there we are then.  Not that they are all that common there. Many a Welsh photographer has walked for hours along the golden beaches of Aberystwyth and come back at the end of the day without a single shot.


Incidentally Fraser/Gray does not mention the Welsh origin.



From: David Rees [
Sent: Sunday, 3 December 2017 10:39 AM
To: Philip Veerman; John Bundock; Geoffrey Dabb
Subject: Re: FW: [canberrabirds] Something for a rainy day (2)


Penguin _ Pen for head, Gwyn for white - the name was probably first used for the extinct Giant auk, which is many ways was an ecological analogue for southern Hemisphere penguins.


'Pen'  pops up in a few English place names, like the Pennines - a reminder that Welsh was spoken in these parts prior to its replacement by English.  Another classic is are the Three River Avons in England.  Afon is Welsh for river (no letter v in welsh).  So the typically culturally insensitive English came up with a name which means River River.  




On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 10:51 PM, Philip Veerman <> wrote:

So, what is the answer?




From: John Bundock [mailto:m("","j.bundock");" target="_blank">]
Sent: Saturday, 2 December, 2017 7:55 PM
To: David Rees; Geoffrey Dabb
Cc: [m("","canberrabirds");" target="_blank">]
Subject: Re: FW: [canberrabirds] Something for a rainy day (2)


Same as David. Easy for the COG Welsh.


John Bundock 

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