Swallow

[Con Boekel <>]

Hi everyone

A bit late to the swallow party but having been tortured by swallows in various parts of SE Asia (including by non-Barn Swallows disporting various bits of dark grey on the breast), my only contribution is to check the undertail coverts. Note the scalloped pattern in some of Shorty's images. My understanding is that no variation of Barn Swallows by age, breeding condition or gender, has this scalloped pattern but am happy to be corrected should this be wrong.

regards

Con

On 4/10/2017 3:37 PM, shorty wrote:

Thanks all, 

Looks like Welcome it is, strange that it looked like this the whole time i watched it and on different angles, that's birding for you.

Shorty

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 9:51 PM, Philip Veerman <m("pcug.org.au","pveerman");" target="_blank">> wrote:

Ah yes a conclusion.......... I don’t have one.

 

But just a hint of an unusual pattern, does not make a member of one species into another. The answer is likely far more simple. As for Shorty’s photo, yes it is likely dark bases to the feathers, being exposed, due to the wind and maybe some moult, rather than dark feathers as such. I don’t know if the feather bases are black, I think in most birds they are black, grey or white, with typically the colour part of the body feathers only being on approximately the outer half.

 

Yes I admit that having seen a few Pacific Swallows & Barn Swallows in Asia (though my experience is very limited), maybe my comment is far more fitting to Welcome Swallows and Pacific Swallows, as they are virtually identical, as far as I could tell. I forgot about that.........

 

 

From: shorty [mailto:m("gmail.com","rawshorty");" target="_blank">]
Sent: Sunday, 9 April, 2017 6:38 PM
To: Philip Veerman
Cc: m("canberrabirds.org.au","Canberrabirds");" target="_blank"> org.au
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Swallow

 

I have no idea what your conclusion is?

 

Shorty

 

 

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Philip Veerman <m("pcug.org.au","pveerman");" target="_blank">> wrote:

Yes I had also thought that from Geoffrey’s picture : “A welcome perch” 5 April (the bird second from top right). I would not think any need to invoke the idea of being young birds. I have often wondered whatever is the basis for classifying Welcome Swallows and Barn Swallows as different species. There is a difference of a black neck band and whiter belly, a very trivial difference. (Anything else?).

This one doesn’t have a white belly. That an occasional WS might show a bit of characteristic of the BS is curious but surely they are so closely related a bit of black extension is not so drastic. ......

Philip

I’m pretty sure that’s just the darker feathers beneath the outer plumage, as ruffled by the wind.

 

Barn swallows when seen in the flesh are very distinct from Welcome Swallows (and this sadly is definitely not one, it’s definitely Welcome). Some races look somewhat similar at a glance, but others are completely different. Pacific Swallows, on the other hand…

 

Julian

 

From: shorty [mailto:m("gmail.com","rawshorty");" target="_blank">]
Sent: Sunday, 9 April, 2017 3:59 PM
To: m("canberrabirds.org.au","Canberrabirds");" target="_blank"> org.au
Subject: [canberrabirds] Swallow

 

G'day all,

 

I was down at the wetlands this afternoon photographing Welcome Swallows and came across 2 birds that had the start of a black band around their neck. Looking through my guide, even though we are well out of range, i started thinking maybe they are young Barn Swallows. I am sure i will be wrong but thought i would check with you more experienced birders to enlighten me.

 

More pics on my FlickR

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/

 

Shorty