Chris suggests " The use of the COG Incidental record form is possible but not
recommended and although paper records are still accepted someone has to
manually enter the records to the database."
Can I ask why the COG Incidental record form is not recommended for this kind
of observation? Of course it cannot handle complete lists and works only for
Incidental Observations, but the original topic was how to get chatline reports
(i.e. incidental reports) into the database. I believe the COG form is the
easiest and most logical way of entering incidental observations and capturing
relevant chatline info. It is simple to use and requires no previous sign up
or commitment to any particular database or system.
One way to facilitate capture of chatline reports would be to have one or
several chatline subscribers set up with a standard message like "thanks for
your interesting report. Can you please ensure that the details are entered to
the COG database via the online form at
http://canberrabirds.org.au/observing-birds/incidental-record-form/ ". This
message should end up (in response to every relevant chatline report) *on* the
chatline, not hidden away privately as so much good chatline information is
hidden. People would soon get the idea, and chatline reports would no longer
be lost.
(The same routine response email could include the information that the
Incidental Report form is designed for significant observations, not general
reporting of most sightings you make around home or elsewhere. This would help
to reduce the urge for people to use the form to submit large numbers of
general reports.)
There may be a downstream technical reason why the COG online incidental record
info does not end up in the database properly (i.e. is not recommended), but I
am not aware of it after following the matter up with Paul Fennell some time
ago.
Julian
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Davey
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 11:31 PM
To:
Cc: Fletcher, Don
Subject: Using Canberra Nature Map to record bird observations
Hi,
Just a reminder concerning Canberra Nature Map. The Map accepts images of
birds. The image is associated with a location, either automatically through
the GPS on the camera or entered manually when submitting the image. The CNM
therefor cannot be used to submit your observations without an image. This is
now best done through eBird or the new BLA Birdata protocol, both of which are
recommended by COG and uploaded to the COG database. Please note that the COG
on-line data entry system is no longer running. The use of the COG Incidental
record form is possible but not recommended and although paper records are
still accepted someone has to manually enter the records to the database.
The need to take observations from the chat-line and place them on the COG
database has been around for as long as the chat-line has been in place.
Efforts have been made to find volunteers to take on this job but to no avail.
It would not be a simple job of extracting the information because the
chat-line record typically indicates species x seen at y today/last week. To be
a valid record a geo-coordinate, abundance, date and a time is required, this
is rarely if ever given. Any volunteer would therefore need to contact the
observer to find out the other details required for a valid record.
That being said, it would be great if someone was prepared to take on the job.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Fletcher
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 6:37 PM
To: 'Mark Clayton';
Subject: Capturing our list's reports (was Re: [canberrabirds] Spotless Crake
Chick)
Hi Mark, list
All publicly accessible databases contain errors. Moderation is a vital chore
which would result in a large nett reduction in errors but it too inevitably
must add some errors. (Presumably the chatline would have errors
too.)
Instead of formally mining the chatline for database entries would it be
appropriate to contrive some way to remind users to also enter their records to
one of the databases? (That will require them to provide the necessary fields,
which the chatline does not and will lead to moderation.)
I like Canberra Nature Map because it accepts all organisms recorded on an
outing not just one taxonomic group, it is moderated, and it is mainly based on
photos and georeferences, so both the records and the locations are pretty
reliable to begin with.
(Trusted individuals can enter records without photos.) ALA seems to me less
reliable.
Few if any of the database managers are going to stop work in the interests of
having one big database. Clearly any serious investigation of species
occurrence must collate entries from multiple databases. Annoying but that's
just how it is. Some sharing of records between databases is happening though
I believe.
Cheers, Don Fletcher
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Clayton
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 4:52 PM
To: 'David McDonald (personal)' <>;
Subject: Capturing our list's reports (was Re:
[canberrabirds] Spotless Crake Chick)
In the past I suggested to either the COG committee, or a person on the
committee, that someone should be appointed, and possibly paid a modest
"honorarium", to enter these sorts of records as we were losing too much
potentially valuable information. My suggestion was met with, at best, a very
luke warm reception and I have heard nothing further on the subject since then!
I have suggested to Julian that he sends in a COG "Incidental Report Form",
available on the COG website.
I also know from personal experience that data entered to eBird does not always
make it to the COG database. My point in question was last year when a visiting
Canadian birder was out with me and he entered his day's list into eBird. One
species was queried (a Restless Flycatcher) where the local moderator wanted a
description of the bird as it was considered "Rare" - (I do agree with that
definition) - locally. Despite the fact that the observer said that I was with
him the record was rejected with a comment somewhat similar to "it is what you
saw, we don't take other people into account, it doen't matter who they are".
We went back several days later and we (I) found the birds nest building. The
only way this record will get in to the COG system is because I put the records
in via the COG "incidental report form".
On a recent trip to PNG there was an American couple putting in all their daily
records via eBird. When talking to the lady doing the eBird data entry I
discovered that at least 50% of what was about to go in to eBird was wrong. If
I hadn't corrected the lady doing the entry there would have been a lot of very
interesting birds recorded for that part of PNG.
Similarly I checked with a colleague at CSIRO, who has had quite a bit to do
with the Atlas of Living Australia, prior to visiting the Iron Range National
Park several years ago using data from the Birdlife Australia's Birdata to
check on the location of Northern Scrub-robin, we found that virtually all
records were way out in the Coral Sea!!
I know the local eBird moderators do a very good job of vetting records but do
we really need all these recording programs? There is nothing wrong with using
the COG system and it is where I will continue to put any data that I collect.
I suggest that this is how COG and its members should be recording data.
No doubt I will receive numerous complaints and abuse from those who use the
other systems. Such is life!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: David McDonald (personal)
Sent: Saturday, 5 November 2016 1:42 PM
To:
Subject: Capturing our list's reports (was Re:
[canberrabirds] Spotless Crake Chick)
Thanks for passing this on, Julian.
It highlights the fact that information such as this, posted to the list, does
not get into any databases unless the subscriber also enters it into COG's data
management system, eBird Australia or Birdlife Australia's Birdata. So far as I
know, reports submitted directly to the Canberra Nature Map or to the Atlas of
Living Australia are not, at present, incorporated into other databases.
I wonder if, among our approx 350 subscribers, there might be someone willing
to volunteer to get this type of report into COG's database? It may entail a
commitment of a couple of hours, or fewer, a week.
Thanks - David
On 5/11/2016 12:52 PM, Julian Teh wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> In the last couple of days I’ve been in contact with an American
> birder Carlos Sanchez who was visiting Canberra - I told him I saw a
> Spotless Crake at Jerrabomberra Wetlands on Sunday, and on chasing it
> up yesterday he found that it has a chick.
>
> Thought someone might be interested in the breeding record!
>
> Cheers,
> Julian Teh
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