Good morning
I’ve been away from organised ornithology/birding for about a decade. It’s
somehow reassuring to see that the topic of hot discussion now is the same as
when I first got involved in the late 1970s, when REN was consuming all the
correspondents!! (REN - Recommended English names for Australian birds
published in Emu in 1978).
I haven’;t even kept up with the lumps & splits, much less the RENs … but
Plumed Muckraker is pretty good, I’ll give you that.
;-)
Dr Lawrie Conole
Castlemaine VIC 3450
Australia
> On 6 Nov 2023, at 4:00 am, wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Lyrebird renaming (Geoff Ryan)
> 2. Re: Lyrebird renaming (Chris King)
> 3. Rain, Ants and Needletails (Laurie Knight)
> 4. Re: Winds of Change (Gordon Claridge)
> 5. Re: Lyrebird renaming (Ross Macfarlane)
> 6. Re: Lyrebird renaming (Philip Veerman)
> 7. Re: Lyrebird renaming (Penny)
> 8. Lyrebird renaming (calyptorhynchus)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 06:14:52 +1100
> From: Geoff Ryan <>
> To:
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
> Message-ID:
> <CAMVTTzz-wf=>
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>
> I just wanted to get in first with - The *Plumed Mulchscratcher* aka the PM
> (for the Superb) and the* Lesser Plumed Mulchscratche*r aka LPM (for Prince
> Alberts). Thinking of renaming all Australian birds.
> Geoff
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 10:06:13 +1100
> From: Chris King <>
> To: Geoff Ryan <>
> Cc: birding-aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
> Message-ID:
> <CAHHdsTNw67z9q_S1=01S_GgThhU5MJnsvRa3UYFpb5Gv7=>
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>
> What about plumed muckraker?
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2023, 9:49 am Geoff Ryan, <> wrote:
>
>> I just wanted to get in first with - The *Plumed Mulchscratcher* aka the
>> PM (for the Superb) and the* Lesser Plumed Mulchscratche*r aka LPM (for
>> Prince Alberts). Thinking of renaming all Australian birds.
>> Geoff
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 10:51:01 +1000
> From: Laurie Knight <>
> To:
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rain, Ants and Needletails
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> G?day Mike
>
> During a brief period in the southern suburbs of Brisbane this morning, there
> was a confluence of rain (minor thunder), flying ants and low level
> needletails. Given the small field of view from my back deck, I could only
> see half a dozen individuals in the swift passage.
>
> Regards Laurie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 08:53:49 +1000
> From: Gordon Claridge <>
> To: Laurie Knight <>
> Cc: Geoffrey Dabb <>, Birding Aus
> <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winds of Change
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Revisionism indeed. Are they so short of other things to occupy their time?
>
> This means more erosion of connections to elements of Australian history and
> culture. Presumably Lewin?s Honeyeater will suffer a name change, thus
> removing a pointer to not only John Lewin?s role in illustrating Australian
> birds, but also his being the first artist to record the distinct ?look? of
> Australia without being blinded by European art conventions - a significant
> milestone in the development of Australian art(1).
>
> It puts me in mind of a revision of common names back in (I think) the early
> ?80s and the proposal to do away with the ?Nankeen? in Kestrel and Night
> Parrot names - apparently by people who were not aware that the name derived
> from the colour of a very cheap cotton fabric that was imported in
> considerable volume from Nanking in the early days. Not a major part of
> Australian history, but a pointer to the fact that there was trade between
> the colonies and China, and also that the fabric was so common for the name
> given to the fabric to become the descriptor for a particular colour.
>
> Gordon
>
> (1) thanks Wikipedia
>
>> On 4 Nov 2023, at 18:47, Laurie Knight <> wrote:
>>
>> The joys of revisionism. It?s one way for taxonomists to make their mark
>> without defining a new species.
>>
>> I guess it will be a straightforward process for species that only occur in
>> one country. I am not sure who would arbitrate over species that breed in
>> numerous countries or are international migrants. (There are heaps of
>> shorebirds and seabirds potentially affected).
>>
>> I think they should rename Victoria?s Riflebird at the same time as Albert?s
>> Lyrebird (Victoria became a shadow of herself when Albert died).
>>
>> I wonder if the powers that be will want to change the name from Royal to
>> Federal Spoonbill when Australia eventually becomes a republic :)
>>
>> Regards, Laurie
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 4 Nov 2023, at 9:01 am, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? are blowing through our bird names. For more than 10 years the
>>> possibility of changing English-language bird names referring to a person
>>> (?personal? or ?eponymous? names) has been on the table. There are no
>>> longer any ?correct? or standard names, so the names used are a matter for
>>> the user - whether an organisation or government agency or field guide
>>> - or just someone talking or writing about birds. Birdlife Australia, as
>>> one name-using organisation, has taken an in-principle decision to move
>>> away from personal names. How this is to be done will be explained in due
>>> course by Birdlife Australia. As it happens, a similar decision has just
>>> been taken for North America by the American Ornithological Society (AOS).
>>> That?s OK. Each generation can decide on its own bird names.
>>>
>>> Here are a few more points. The initiative does not affect the many
>>> scientific names that refer to a person. For the time being at least,
>>> names referring to a place that bears a personal name will not be affected
>>> (e.g. Lord Howe Woodhen, Tasmanian Native-hen). Both the organisations
>>> mentioned see their projects as directed to species that occur mainly in
>>> the respective geographic areas they cover. So in the case of Australia
>>> Baillon?s Crake might not be due for attention. That raises the question
>>> how the many oceanic seabirds with personal names will be dealt with.
>>> Perhaps that will be a matter for global lists as they adopt their own
>>> policies in reaction to this development.
>>>
>>> Both organisations intend to take a consultative approach and look for
>>> appropriate descriptive names. Experience of that task suggests that this
>>> will not be all that simple, particularly if features descriptive of the
>>> male only are to be avoided. Albert?s Lyrebird will be an early candidate
>>> for the chopping block. Not only does Prince Albert not deserve to have a
>>> bird named for him but the ?lyre? refers to the male only, of a different
>>> species.
>>>
>>> Geoffrey
>>>
>>> <HR>
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>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 14:34:53 +1100
> From: "Ross Macfarlane" <>
> To: "'Chris King'" <>, "'Geoff Ryan'"
> <>
> Cc: "'birding-aus'" <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Very amusing of course, but given we are happy to name Western and Mallee
> Whipbirds that don?t, then a lyrebird with no lyre is probably not a deal
> broken.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ross
>
>
>
> From: Birding-Aus <> On Behalf Of Chris
> King
> Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2023 10:06 AM
> To: Geoff Ryan <>
> Cc: birding-aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
>
>
>
> What about plumed muckraker?
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2023, 9:49 am Geoff Ryan, <
> <> > wrote:
>
> I just wanted to get in first with - The Plumed Mulchscratcher aka the PM
> (for the Superb) and the Lesser Plumed Mulchscratcher aka LPM (for Prince
> Alberts). Thinking of renaming all Australian birds.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
> <HR>
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> <BR> <>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
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> </HR>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 16:35:48 +1100
> From: "Philip Veerman" <>
> To: "'birding-aus'" <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> There are lots of examples. Another one is Jabiru. Yes it is the proper name
> for a South American stork and the name refers to a feature of that species.
> So its etymology does not apply to our Australian stork. But for reasons that
> I don?t know the name was carried across to our stork and still widely used.
> I think partly because Jabiru sure sounds like an Australian word (like
> kangaroo and it has a big jabbing beak, it is easy to say and sounds less
> formulaic). And from there it was given to a town and an airline. Is it
> wrong? It is still a related species, just as our species is related to the
> White Stork. Is the relationship closer than to the real Jabiru? Black-necked
> Stork aligns it to the European bird, is it more wrong to align it with a
> South American bird? I will call it Black-necked Stork.
>
>
>
> Philip
>
>
>
> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
> Ross Macfarlane
> Sent: Sunday, 5 November, 2023 2:35 PM
> To: 'Chris King'; 'Geoff Ryan'
> Cc: 'birding-aus'
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
>
>
>
> Very amusing of course, but given we are happy to name Western and Mallee
> Whipbirds that don?t, then a lyrebird with no lyre is probably not a deal
> broken.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ross
>
>
>
> From: Birding-Aus <> On Behalf Of Chris
> King
> Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2023 10:06 AM
> To: Geoff Ryan <>
> Cc: birding-aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
>
>
>
> What about plumed muckraker?
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2023, 9:49 am Geoff Ryan, <> wrote:
>
> I just wanted to get in first with - The Plumed Mulchscratcher aka the PM
> (for the Superb) and the Lesser Plumed Mulchscratcher aka LPM (for Prince
> Alberts). Thinking of renaming all Australian birds.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:31:41 +1100
> From: Penny <>
> To: "Willem Jan Marinus Vader" <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> But the South American Jabiru looks totally different to our Black-necked
> Stork.
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023, at 4:35 PM, Philip Veerman wrote:
>> There are lots of examples. Another one is Jabiru. Yes it is the proper name
>> for a South American stork and the name refers to a feature of that species.
>> So its etymology does not apply to our Australian stork. But for reasons
>> that I don?t know the name was carried across to our stork and still widely
>> used. I think partly because Jabiru sure sounds like an Australian word
>> (like kangaroo and it has a big jabbing beak, it is easy to say and sounds
>> less formulaic). And from there it was given to a town and an airline. Is it
>> wrong? It is still a related species, just as our species is related to the
>> White Stork. Is the relationship closer than to the real Jabiru?
>> Black-necked Stork aligns it to the European bird, is it more wrong to align
>> it with a South American bird? I will call it Black-necked Stork.
>>
>> Philip
>>
>> *From:* Birding-Aus *On Behalf
>> Of *Ross Macfarlane
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 5 November, 2023 2:35 PM
>> *To:* 'Chris King'; 'Geoff Ryan'
>> *Cc:* 'birding-aus'
>> *Subject:* Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
>>
>> Very amusing of course, but given we are happy to name Western and Mallee
>> Whipbirds that don?t, then a lyrebird with no lyre is probably not a deal
>> broken.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ross
>>
>> *From:* Birding-Aus <> *On Behalf Of
>> *Chris King
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 5, 2023 10:06 AM
>> *To:* Geoff Ryan <>
>> *Cc:* birding-aus <>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
>>
>> What about plumed muckraker?
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Nov 2023, 9:49 am Geoff Ryan, <> wrote:
>>> I just wanted to get in first with - The *Plumed Mulchscratcher* aka the PM
>>> (for the Superb) and the* Lesser Plumed Mulchscratche*r aka LPM (for Prince
>>> Alberts). Thinking of renaming all Australian birds.
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>>
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
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>> </HR>
>>
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> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 19:48:37 +1100
> From: calyptorhynchus <>
> To: "<>" <>
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Lyrebird renaming
> Message-ID:
> <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> While renaming birds let?s swap the names of the Black-faced and Masked
> Woodswallows. Because the Black-faced has a mask, and the Masked has a
> black face!
>
> John L
> --
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