Paralysis Ticks and Mammalian Meat Allergies on Catalyst.

To: "'Denise Goodfellow'" <>, "'Carl Clifford'" <>
Subject: Paralysis Ticks and Mammalian Meat Allergies on Catalyst.
From: "Paul Doyle" <>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:25:42 +1100
Ditto for me: have used OFF for years: just as effective as DEET products,
without the repugnant smell, stickiness etc. 
Aerogard (the market leader in DEET for years) now have a picaridin-based
repellent on the market: they sell it as 'odourless/low-irritant' but I did
notice that the concentration of picaridin is a lot lower (70% or so, I
think) than in OFF.


-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus  On Behalf Of
Denise Goodfellow
Sent: Wednesday, 18 February 2015 3:19 PM
To: Carl Clifford
Cc: birding-aus
Subject: Paralysis Ticks and Mammalian Meat Allergies on

Carl, I use OFF  as well, and have always advised friends and clients to do
the same.


Denise Lawungkurr  Goodfellow
PO Box 71
Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841

PhD candidate, Southern Cross University, Lismore, NSW.

Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia
Nominated by Earthfoot for Condé Nast?s International  Ecotourism Award,
043 8650 835

On 18 Feb 2015, at 10:30 am, Carl Clifford <> wrote:

> David,
> I have been using OFF!, a picaridin based repellent for a few years now,
and find it excellent. Not only works well on insects, but is good for
leeches as well. I have even used to repel bed bugs in SE Asia. I would not
go back to using a DEET based repellent.
> Carl Clifford
>> On 18 Feb 2015, at 8:10 am, David Adams <> wrote:
>> Carl,
>> Thanks for the notice and thanks to Paul for the link. What a 
>> disturbing but well done piece!
>> I've got a few suggestions on insect repellants that I thought I'd 
>> pass along to anyone that hasn't been as paranoid about bugs as me. 
>> As it turns out, there's a lot of research on what works and what 
>> doesn't for ticks and mossies. The US Army and ADF have done projects 
>> together since both deploy troops into areas with horrific insect-born
disease. Off the top of my head:
>> * Yes, the US Army and ADF managed to invent a 100% effective insect 
>> repellant system, when applied. When applied. So horrible that people 
>> weren't compliant. It doesn't work if you don't use it...which is why 
>> I like Picaradin rather than DEET.
>> * DEET is effective against mossies, not so much for ticks. It's also 
>> greasy, nasty, and tends to melt plastics. Not ideal for birders.
>> * Picaradin (available here in Aus - look for no mention of DEET on 
>> the front and 'goes on like water' as a claim. The ingredients list 
>> will list
>> Picaradin.) I love this stuff for mossies! I think I've converted 
>> most of the local bird club to my way of thinking on this. Picaradin 
>> doesn't smell bad, isn't greasy and doesn't seem to melt plastic 
>> instantly like DEET. It works great for mossies. Ticks? I'm not sure.
>> * Mossies can bite you without you knowing it and ticks can certainly 
>> bite you long before you notice. If you're anything like me, I think 
>> of putting on insect repellant *after* I'm needing it. That's okay 
>> when they're an irritant, not good when they may be carrying 
>> something horrible like Malaria or Dengue. This leads to Permethrin. 
>> This chemical is based on a natural compound but is entirely 
>> synthetic, as I understand it. If you apply it to your skin, it 
>> breaks down and does you no good. Instead, you use it to treat your 
>> clothes. An application lasts for many weeks and is highly effective 
>> against mosquitoes and *even more effective against ticks." Mossies 
>> it repels, ticks it kills. The stuff is amazing, you can be standing 
>> in a damp, dark mossie-infested pit/birder's paradise and nothing lands
on you. Magic.
>> * Permethrin-like chemicals (pyrethroids) in other formulations are 
>> built into clothes and netting as long-lasting insect repellants 
>> (That's what's going on with those five-year mossie nets they 
>> distribute and sell in various locations in Africa.) I've used 
>> long-sleeved shirts and pants like this. Fancy travel brands like 
>> ExOfficio (etc.) sell this sort of stuff. I get the SPF 30+, quick 
>> drying ones. Be forewarned: Just add binoculars and camera to make sure
that you blend in with the locals anywhere.
>> (Cough-cough.) Also, it seems like this stuff makes your sweat smell 
>> horrible in about 15 seconds. I have not found this to be so much the 
>> case when you treat normal clothes with Permethrin. So, the pre-built 
>> ones are more convenient and the repellant properties last long...but 
>> treating your own gives you more flexibility and you still get weeks of
>> * Lots of people like botanical repellants of one sort or another. If 
>> they work for you, fantastic. Studies have shown them to be 
>> (depending on
>> compound) ineffective to minimally effective. I like Picaradin (or 
>> DEET if I must) because I don't have to remember to reapply the 
>> material very often. With botanicals that do work a bit, you have to 
>> reapply very, very frequently to keep the bugs away. I'm. Too. Lazy. 
>> To be honest, I only get worked up about all of this when I'm going 
>> somewhere with something horrific like Malaria...then I'm all about 
>> getting zero mossie bites...that's the only way to be sure. (Oh, and 
>> for anyone doing Malarial prophylactics, I encourage you to consider 
>> Malarone. Much easier to tolerate than Doxycycline and you don't have 
>> to keep taking it for so long.)
>> Again, all of that is off the top of my head and I'm sure I've 
>> blurred or messed up some details....but there are a few general 
>> impressions and anecdotal reports from someone that's tried a lot of 
>> bug repellants. If anyone has found other effective tools, please share
with the list!
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