birding-aus

GPS on Smartphones - caution

To: Bill Stent <>
Subject: GPS on Smartphones - caution
From: Carl Clifford <>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:51:07 +1100
Yes, I have notice the little blighters are a bit hungry. Lucky  B E offer a 
charging cable for using in your car, though any USB A to micro USB would do, 
combined with a cigarette lighter adaptor with a USB outlet (thinks: must get 
them for myself)

Cheers,

Carl Clifford



On 07/10/2013, at 17:35, Bill Stent <> wrote:

> Funny you should mention Bad Elf. I had to give a speech at a mate's 50th 
> yesterday. He lives in a bit of a rabbit warren in Reservoir (Melbourne) so I 
> stuck the Bad Elf into the iPod and had the sat nav get me there. Problem 
> was, I forgot to turn it off when I arrived. The Bad Elf is a ripper little 
> thing but it does chew the battery a bit.
> 
> After a couple of hours it was time to do the speech. Problem was I'd put my 
> notes (you can probably see where this is going...) on my iPod.
> 
> A bit of a panic followed but I was saved by mate's daughter who had a 
> charger. 
> 
> Good lesson though. Letting the GPSr run out of battery in the city is 
> inconvenient. Letting it run out in the outback could be fatal. Always keep a 
> backup.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On 07/10/2013, at 4:23 PM, <> wrote:
> 
>> Gidday Peter, 
>> 
>> In all my years of GPSing I've never had a straight GPS crash. This has 
>> included severe cooking incidents in cars on Cape York in summer sun, long 
>> drops onto sandstone, proper drenching, and sweat .... so much sweat! I 
>> haven't relied on memory cards ever. It means the GPS can store less, but 
>> it's useful enough for me with inbuilt maps, which I generally turn off 
>> anyway. 
>> 
>> I have had two occasions when the GPS signal has clearly been scrambled when 
>> my direction of travel changed suddenly on the GPS but not in actual fact, 
>> and sudden loss of accuracy (up to 200m error). I suspect the time stamps 
>> received by the GPS must have been diluted (not sure of correct 
>> terminology), but these inaccuracies are otherwise inexplicable to me.
>> 
>> The GPS function on my smartphone, including with Bad Elf (which I think 
>> someone mentioned earlier) is not yet in my "trusted equipment" list because 
>> of battery drain, aforementioned crash, and general failure of some 
>> associated applications to work with sufficient reliability. 
>> 
>> Hooroo, 
>> 
>> E
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Shute  
>> Sent: Monday, 7 October 2013 2:40 PM
>> To: Vanderduys, Eric (CES, TownsvilleATSIP)
>> Cc: ; 
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] GPS on Smartphones - caution
>> 
>> Good point. Do dedicated GPSs ever crash and become inaccessible? I would 
>> have thought they'd be less likely too, being simpler, but memory cards can 
>> become corrupt in any device.
>> 
>> Apart from a data loss like yours, one has to consider what happens if 
>> you're relying on it to navigate at the time.
>> 
>> Peter Shute
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 7 Oct 2013, at 3:40 pm, "" 
>>> <> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Peter, I second your comments regarding the usefulness of GPS functions and 
>>> various apps on smart phones. 
>>> 
>>> One caution: if your phone is an iPhone and crashes, it is a complete black 
>>> box. Last year I commenced collecting certain types of field data on an 
>>> iPhone 4s. After turning the phone off at end of field trip, and then 
>>> turning it back on it asked to be reset. This, allegedly, wipes all data. 
>>> The good news is I sent it to a forensic data recovery expert in Sydney who 
>>> cracked it (his first successful 4s crack) and recovered all data for $250. 
>>> Much cheaper than redoing the data collection (estimate $4-6k).
>>> 
>>> Lesson: even if you get back to camp at midnight, back up immediately to a 
>>> computer, or cloud if in range. 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Eric
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:  
>>>  On Behalf Of Peter 
>>> and Toni
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 2:40 PM
>>> To: 
>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] GPS for vocalisation recording
>>> 
>>> I use several different Android smartphones and tablets for detailed GPS 
>>> mapping.  The modern smart phones are brilliant in heavy forest.  Mine is 
>>> capable of tracking more than 20 satellites, including the russian ones.  
>>> Older GPS could only track 8 so quickly lost signal under cover.  
>>> In heavy rainforest the phone kept a fix at all times when previous surveys 
>>> had seen older GPS lose all signal.  Every year the phones get more 
>>> sensitive.  For instance they will easily get a fix from inside a house, as 
>>> long as there is a window in the room.  Accuracy and repeatability are far 
>>> improved from older dedicated GPS I have owned, although I am sure newer 
>>> dedicated GPSs have also improved.  I use Oziexplorer to manage maps and 
>>> waypoints.  It can download the waypoints to excel for easy manipulation.  
>>> There are similar programs available for Apple. Battery life can be a bit 
>>> short, but I also carry a small battery pack that can recharge the phone if 
>>> out all day.  Having your birding app, GPS and phone in one instrument 
>>> makes juggling hardware a lot less of a problem.  As long as you don't lose 
>>> it or drop it.
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> Peter
>>>> On 01-Oct-13 12:41 PM, Merrilyn Serong wrote:
>>>> Garmin handheld GPS units are very good.
>>>> Here is a link so you can compare the different models.
>>>> https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/cOnTheTrail-cHandheld-p1.html
>>>> They are not cheap, but if you want a good one...
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Merrilyn
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/10/2013 11:59 AM, David Richardson wrote:
>>>>> One of the points mentioned in the original post was that the GPS be 
>>>>> capable of deep forest satellite acquisition.I don't know much about 
>>>>> iphone or camera GPS functions but I doubt they would operate 
>>>>> accurately in situations other than clear sky satellite 
>>>>> acquisition.That is why a dedicated GPS unit,and a very good one at 
>>>>> that,would be of more use.
>>>>> perhaps someone on list who has knowledge of this could post a relpy 
>>>>> addressing that point?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I suspect that the main difference between a phone GPS and a 
>>>>>> dedicated one, apart from not using up the battery of your precious 
>>>>>> communication device, is accuracy. I'm told I shouldn't expect 
>>>>>> better than 30m accuracy from an iphone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I suspect Google Earth coordinates can be off by that much too, if 
>>>>>> the difference between the images of roads and the corresponding 
>>>>>> linework is anything to go by.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Peter Shute
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1 Oct 2013, at 9:06 am, "Martin Butterfield" 
>>>>>> < <>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you don't have a mobile phone, my camera (Panasonic TZ40) has a 
>>>>>> GPS function which - if activated -  includes geocoordinates with 
>>>>>> images.  I suspect many other mid-range cameras now have this 
>>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It seems that the need for a dedicated GPS for simply recording 
>>>>>> point locations is well gone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1 October 2013 08:30, Peter Shute <<mailto:
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> If you mean you want to save and name a way point so that you can 
>>>>>> just read out the way point name into the microphone, then I would 
>>>>>> have thought most would allow that. Some probably just 
>>>>>> automatically number the way points, but you could read out that number.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just use my phone's GPS (have never tried a dedicated GPS), and I 
>>>>>> read out the coordinates directly at each new location. I could 
>>>>>> mark a way point and then later copy its coordinates into the 
>>>>>> metadata, but it seems just as quick to type it out while I listen 
>>>>>> to the coordinates I read out.
>>>>>> It gives
>>>>>> me two chances to get it wrong, but it also means the coordinates 
>>>>>> aren't as likely to get separated from the recording.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm hoping I can find a way to get the phone to read out the 
>>>>>> current coordinates so I can just hold it up to the mic. That 
>>>>>> should eliminate the first kind of error, but it's inspired more by 
>>>>>> laziness.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Peter Shute
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: <mailto:
>>>>>> > [
>>>>>> <mailto:
>>>>>> >] On Behalf Of Roger 
>>>>>> McNeill [ 
>>>>>> <>]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2013 7:52 AM
>>>>>> To: 
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> au
>>>>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] GPS for vocalisation recording
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know this has been raised a few times over the years, so 
>>>>>> apologies for that, but the technology and brands keep changing and 
>>>>>> it is difficult to keep up.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I need a Handheld GPS to support my vocalisation recordings. The 
>>>>>> main requirements other than the obligatory battery life, 
>>>>>> ruggedness, light, international maps, deep forest satilite 
>>>>>> acquistion, etc, is the ability to input multiple way points and 
>>>>>> link them to a specific recording.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Most of the units I see on line seem to have a detailed  drill down 
>>>>>> menu but what I am looking for is a compact unit whereby I can 
>>>>>> quickly enter a location, note the 'location reference' in my 
>>>>>> recording and then weeks later when I am back home, download that 
>>>>>> way point into my computer when I am doing my Meta data?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Up until now I have been doing it after the fact off Google Earth 
>>>>>> and this is getting very old.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also, the ability to pre-load waypoints is probably standard, but 
>>>>>> also required.  I am a hand held GPS novice, if that is not already 
>>>>>> evident by the questions, so any and all help is appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger McNeill
>>>>>> Samford Valley, SEQ
>>>>>> ===============================
>>>> 
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