Oriental Plovers @ Long Reef

To: Joshua Bergmark <>, "" <>, Mark and Amanda Young <>
Subject: Oriental Plovers @ Long Reef
From: Nikolas Haass <>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 18:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Josh et al.

Your bird seems to have too long tertials and too short primaries and it looks 
too short-winged, too long-billed and too long-legged to me to be an AGP but 
I'd like to see more detailed photos to make a clear statement.

>From the sounds of it you had the opportunity to directly compare the bird in 
>question with 12 PGPs and 2 (-3) Oriental Plovers to be able to judge size and 
>structure. Here some field marks for the four tundra plovers (Pluvialis):

Grey Plover is conspicuously larger/heavier than GPs; chunkier; large-headed; 
heavy-billed; black axillaries and white rump are diagnostic - any views of the 

EGP: Chunky (intermediate between Grey and AGP/PGP); rounder body; shorter 
legs; relatively even smaller bill; white axillaries are diagnostic.

AGP has a longer primary projection than PGP (AGP: 4-5 primary tips visible 
beyond the tertials (sometimes difficult, when tertials are missing or when 
primaries are missing or growing): PGP: normally 3 primary tips visible (but 
sometimes 4 or even 5 depending on the caveats listed above)
AGP has a longer wing projection than PGP (AGP: wings protrude conspicuously 
beyond tail, PGP's wings similar in length to tail or just longer than tail) - 
again: this is dependent on moult status
Distance between P9 and P10 longer in AGP than PGP
AGP has shorter tibiae than PGP
AGP has shorter toe projection than PGP (AGP toes as long as tail in flight; 
PGP's toes protrude beyond tail)
AGP has shorter, more conical bill than PGP.
Colouration differences between the two species depend on age and seasonal 



Nikolas Haass

Brisbane, QLD

From: Joshua Bergmark <>
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 10:25 AM
Subject: Oriental Plovers @ Long Reef

Further to this, it has been pointed out that our "Grey Plover" is not so.
General consensus seems to be PGP, however AGP has been raised. Does anyone
more experienced than me have thoughts on this?

Joshua Bergmark


On 7 October 2013 09:20, Joshua Bergmark <> wrote:

> Glad you found them yesterday Mark, such great birds! Did you notice the
> Grey Plover there with them?
> Oriental Plover 1:
> Oriental Plover 2:
> Grey Plover:
> Cheers,
> Joshua Bergmark

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