Philip,
Without going into this any further, well said - I couldn't agree with you more!
Let's leave this discussion at that, shall we!!??
Cheers,
Martin Cachard,
Cairns
0428 782 808
> From:
> To:
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 23:13:08 +1100
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] sex, not gender
>
> I suspect this has run its course and it has become rather tedious. To tell
> the truth, surely it hardly matters but seeing as Stephen posted the message
> I will send my reply. I see no sense or logic at all in a distinction behind
> the words in brackets that "Bulls are male (not masculine) and cows are
> female (not feminine)". They exhibit in their behaviour and attributes the
> same characteristics of masculinity and femininity, as adapted appropriate
> to their species, as do humans and any other species. The phrase about
> something "as useless as tits on a bull" is used in the broader sense of
> gender and what is best for masculine and feminine roles or indeed any
> inappropriate addition (like a propeller on a bus), than just physical sex.
> One could argue the case with male sea horses as they show the feminine
> habit of giving birth to their young. Thus they are not male in their
> behaviour, but neither are they female (because they produce sperm, not
> eggs) but they are I believe undeniably feminine in that attribute, as they
> have the mother role. It seems absurd to me to suggest people have more in
> common with ships and cars and cyclones and words in grammar that like
> people are assigned a gender, than they have to life forms that according to
> this argument, do not have a gender. I suspect the view being put against
> mine is built upon the concept that gender applies uniquely to humans,
> within living things and also to inanimate objects. In biology we need to
> get away from the idea that humans are a separate system from other life. We
> are not. Otherwise it is applying a Christian value or term or just European
> cultural, to science. Which he objects to. This seems completely wrong to
> me. I don't actually think Stephen thinks that. As far as the ideas of the
> sexism in human society, there is no shortage of other mammal species that
> run a similar system of males taking a domineering role over females.
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> An interesting idea and sounds mostly credible. A discussion point, though I
> don't think there is an answer, it is just a word use thing and words do
> have a range of uses. I agree with your end point. I believe the patriarchal
> Christians would have invented these ideas as their way of interpreting
> nature. Although the reason for doing so was to exploit fundamental
> biological features to maintain a sexist system. They did not appreciate
> that humans have the same basic biology as other species, through common
> descent. Thus set up a silly system whereby there is a dividing line: humans
> - everything else, that really doesn't exist in nature. Thankfully hopefully
> we have a more advanced and liberal view. So I think it reasonable to extend
> the idea of masculine and feminine features to nature. It is these features
> that denote gender. So I can't imagine any reason why gender should apply to
> people, tropical cyclones, all French and Latin nouns and boats, but not to
> goshawks, gorillas or corn. But as in the examples I have others have used,
> the concept as gender when it contradicts sex is really rather silly.
>
> Philip
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Stephen
> Ambrose
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 8:25 PM
> To: 'Merrilyn Serong';
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] sex, not gender
>
>
> Below is an email that I sent privately to Philip late this afternoon. In
> light of Merrilyn's latest contribution to the discussion, I thought it was
> appropriate to share it on Birding-aus. It supports the argument that
> Merrilyn has put forward.
>
> Stephen
>
>
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