FW: [Birding-Aus] Re: Brown Goshawk or Collared Sparrowhawk

To: "'Birding Aus'" <>
Subject: FW: [Birding-Aus] Re: Brown Goshawk or Collared Sparrowhawk
From: "Mark and Mandy Young" <>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:07:54 +1100
Hi Peter,

I went to Warriewood yesterday afternoon and they were still there. My
raptor id'ing skills are still developing, so thankfully David Stowe was
able to ID them as Brown Goshawks.

I don't think he'ld mind if I post his observations from another forum;
'I went down today to check out your birds and I must admit that I was wrong
with the Sparrowhawk suggestion sorry. definitely Brown Goshawks. When I
arrived I saw the female fly off and she was indeed a big bird as your
original photo showed which immediately ruled out Sparrowhawk. The male
stayed for a bit allowing a few photos clearly showing the rounded tail and

>From yesterday's observation; The birds flew in after I had been waiting for
about 30mins. The smaller male flew in first, then the much larger female
about 5 mins later. They called quite often whilst I was there, and checking
the description of the calls on the birds in backyards website, their calls
sounded more like the description to the Brown Goshawks, than for the
Collared Sparrowhawks.
I also noted the size difference between the 2 sexes. The female was much
larger than the smaller male, but in the attached photo she does seem a
little 'fluffed' up.


The 'beetle brow' is more apparent in these shots than in my original shots
of the 2 birds together.

I'll be popping down to have a look at them at least once a week. So if you
want to keep up to date with them, I'll be putting a regular post about them
in my blog.
I haven't done one for yesterday yet, but it should be up sometime later
this evening.


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Shute  
Sent: Saturday, 31 October 2009 7:23 AM
To: Mark and Mandy Young
Subject: Re: Brown Goshawk or Collared Sparrowhawk

Many, did you ever get any responses about this?

I'm not going to offer any opinions on the tail, and really don't trust it
as a diagnostic anymore, unless it's a good clear view and the tail is
fanned enough to see each feather.  Looking at the male's brow, I'd be a
little concerned that it doesn't look prominent enough for a Brown Goshawk,
but not very - could be the angle, and I'm far from an expert anyway.

Seeing the two together like this means it's a pair, so I'd be judging on
the size alone.  Did you estimate their sizes at the time?

I've only visited Warriewood once (I'm in Melbourne), it's a really great

Peter Shute

On Behalf Of Mark and Mandy Young 
Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2009 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: Brown Goshawk or Collared Sparrowhawk

G'day everyone,

I need a bit of help getting a positive ID of these birds I spotted at
Warriewood Wetlands this morning.

The only information I can offer for a positive ID is that when I spotted
the nest with one of the birds was on it. Its tail was poking over the end,
and I noticed that the middle tail feathers appeared slightly longer than
the other tail feathers. This feature is my only defining feature to tick it
as a Brown Goshawk.

I know in the past couple of seasons that a Goshawk pair have nested at
Warriewood, but I don't know if it was a Brown or Grey Goshawk.

Also seen at Warriewood this morning, but not as exciting was a Rufous
Fantail and a female Rufous Whistler.




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