That story about killing ibis eggs is so sad! Whats wrong with people?
>
> 6. RE: White Ibis studies in Sydney Region (David Berg)
>
>
>
> know by reply e-mail, delete it from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:27 +1100 (EST)
> From: David Berg <>
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
> To: storm <>,
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I agree, one of the sickest items of cruelty to animals I've read in a
> while. And its carried out by government bodies that should be looking after
> native species. Ibises for ever!
>
> Dave Berg
>
> storm <> wrote:
> Alan, Greg
>
> It's reports like this that make the general public think it's ok to
> rubbish
> Ibis. This is about a 'humane' way to kill off the eggs of an 'aggressive'
> species. I can't think of anything more aggressive than a species that
> will
> kill off another's young.
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/11/2056320.htm
>
> The Australian ibis, with its white body plumage, black head and neck and
> long curved bill, is a common bird in north and east Australia and more
> often than not, it is near a rubbish bin near you.
>
> The reason for that is that its usual feeding and breeding areas in the
> western wetlands have dried out.
>
> But researchers have found a way they say that is 100 per cent effective
> in
> controlling the nuisance species and it involves common cooking oil, but
> not
> a cooking pot, thankfully.
>
> The same method can be applied to other bird pests like starlings, pigeons
> and Indian mynas.
>
> Sydney's Centennial Park is a swathe of green in the heart of the city but
> at the moment it is also a hot bed of hormones.
>
> On a small island in the middle of one of the park's lakes, several
> hundred
> ibis are busy attracting a mate.
>
> They are honking and lifting their wings to reveal a red streak, a sign
> that
> the bird is ready to breed.
>
> Professor Joan Dawes is from Pestat, a group that develops ways to control
> pest species.
>
> She first came across egg oiling in the United States during a visit to
> the
> Department of Agriculture.
>
> The Americans had just finished trials using everyday cooking oil to coat
> the eggs of Canada geese and seagulls.
>
> The idea is that the baby bird is starved of oxygen inside the egg and the
> egg never hatches.
>
> "They're quite big and quite aggressive birds. They'll eat anything at all
> and they'll also just walk up to little kids and take a sandwich or an
> ice-cream out of their hands and probably peck them in the process," she
> said.
>
> "So it was a particularly easy, cheap, simple process and I thought that
> it
> might be worth trying here in Australia."
>
> John Martin is one of the park rangers in Sydney's Centennial Park and he
> has had a 100 per cent success rate on his first trial of egg oiling.
>
> Birds nesting on one island in the park had their eggs sprayed with the
> oil
> and none of them hatched.
>
> The birds also did not return to that island for the next breeding season.
>
> "The common technique used is nest and egg destruction and when you do
> that
> the birds - what we've observed is that ibis commonly just re-nest," he
> said.
>
> "So it's a lot of effort for them to build another nest and then lay
> another
> clutch of eggs, so with the oiling technique it actually stops them from
> laying another clutch of eggs.
>
> "They continue to incubate the eggs which they've already laid, but
> they're
> not going to hatch."
>
> Professor Dawes says the only thing that can be concluded is that as a
> social, nesting species they communicate with each other.
>
> "Word got out that this was not a good place to nest and that they weren't
> going to rear young if they did nest there," she said.
>
> But it seems that warning message was only passed on among ibis, not other
> bird species.
>
> On the trial island, cormorants are now breeding in fig trees and a
> camphor
> laurel tree 20 metres above where the ibis had their eggs oiled.
>
> The researchers also say egg oiling may be a cheap and effective way for
> city councils to eradicate problem birds like the ibis and potentially
> starlings and pigeons.
>
> "One of the advantages of this is that it's a food oil and so there are
> absolutely no health or safety or environmental consequences to its use,"
> Professor Dawes said.
>
> "You could just go to the supermarket and buy the canola oil and use
> that."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> Behalf Of Gregory Little
> Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2008 4:38 PM
> To: 'alan morris';
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
>
>
> Gooday Alan and all
>
> Just as an aside re Ibis, I was recently out on a daily walk along the
> back of Maryland on the edge of Hexham Swamp (near Newcastle, NSW) and
> as I passed a fellow walker I commented on how good it was to see the
> White Ibis nesting in a patch of nearby Paperbarks. He answered very
> shortly "that they are a pest and steal food and bother people". I
> assumed he meant those Ibis in Sydney at the Zoo and Hyde Park etc.
>
> Greg Little
>
> Greg Little - Principal Consultant
> General Flora and Fauna
> PO Box 526
> Wallsend, NSW, 2287, Australia
> Ph 02 49 556609
> Fx 02 49 556671
> www.gff.com.au
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of alan morris
> Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2008 4:17 PM
> To:
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
>
> Hi Birders,
> Can anyone tell me who to contact in respect to the colour-banding
> project
> of breeding White Ibis in the Sydney region?
>
> A contact of mine has been recording band numbers and colours, and
> wants to
> know to whom he should pass on the details?
>
> Alan Morris
>
> ===============================
> www.birding-aus.org
> birding-aus.blogspot.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> send the message:
> unsubscribe
> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> to:
> ===============================
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> 9/01/2008 10:16 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> 9/01/2008 10:16 AM
>
>
> ===============================
> www.birding-aus.org
> birding-aus.blogspot.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> send the message:
> unsubscribe
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> to:
> ===============================
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> 09/01/2008
> 10:16 AM
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> 09/01/2008
> 10:16 AM
>
> ===============================
> www.birding-aus.org
> birding-aus.blogspot.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
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>
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> ---------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:14:27 +1100
> From:
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
> To: David Berg <>
> Cc:
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> It should be noted Ibis are considered a pest species on the gold coast
> and nests are actively
> removed and the egss destroyed ine the breeding season for a number of
> years.
>
>
> Quoting David Berg <>:
>
> > I agree, one of the sickest items of cruelty to animals I've read in
> > a while. And its carried out by government bodies that should be
> > looking after native species. Ibises for ever!
> >
> > Dave Berg
> >
> > storm <> wrote:
> > Alan, Greg
> >
> > It's reports like this that make the general public think it's ok to
> > rubbish
> > Ibis. This is about a 'humane' way to kill off the eggs of an
> > 'aggressive'
> > species. I can't think of anything more aggressive than a species
> > that will
> > kill off another's young.
> >
> > http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/11/2056320.htm
> >
> > The Australian ibis, with its white body plumage, black head and neck
> > and
> > long curved bill, is a common bird in north and east Australia and
> > more
> > often than not, it is near a rubbish bin near you.
> >
> > The reason for that is that its usual feeding and breeding areas in
> > the
> > western wetlands have dried out.
> >
> > But researchers have found a way they say that is 100 per cent
> > effective in
> > controlling the nuisance species and it involves common cooking oil,
> > but not
> > a cooking pot, thankfully.
> >
> > The same method can be applied to other bird pests like starlings,
> > pigeons
> > and Indian mynas.
> >
> > Sydney's Centennial Park is a swathe of green in the heart of the
> > city but
> > at the moment it is also a hot bed of hormones.
> >
> > On a small island in the middle of one of the park's lakes, several
> > hundred
> > ibis are busy attracting a mate.
> >
> > They are honking and lifting their wings to reveal a red streak, a
> > sign that
> > the bird is ready to breed.
> >
> > Professor Joan Dawes is from Pestat, a group that develops ways to
> > control
> > pest species.
> >
> > She first came across egg oiling in the United States during a visit
> > to the
> > Department of Agriculture.
> >
> > The Americans had just finished trials using everyday cooking oil to
> > coat
> > the eggs of Canada geese and seagulls.
> >
> > The idea is that the baby bird is starved of oxygen inside the egg
> > and the
> > egg never hatches.
> >
> > "They're quite big and quite aggressive birds. They'll eat anything
> > at all
> > and they'll also just walk up to little kids and take a sandwich or
> > an
> > ice-cream out of their hands and probably peck them in the process,"
> > she
> > said.
> >
> > "So it was a particularly easy, cheap, simple process and I thought
> > that it
> > might be worth trying here in Australia."
> >
> > John Martin is one of the park rangers in Sydney's Centennial Park
> > and he
> > has had a 100 per cent success rate on his first trial of egg
> > oiling.
> >
> > Birds nesting on one island in the park had their eggs sprayed with
> > the oil
> > and none of them hatched.
> >
> > The birds also did not return to that island for the next breeding
> > season.
> >
> > "The common technique used is nest and egg destruction and when you
> > do that
> > the birds - what we've observed is that ibis commonly just re-nest,"
> > he
> > said.
> >
> > "So it's a lot of effort for them to build another nest and then lay
> > another
> > clutch of eggs, so with the oiling technique it actually stops them
> > from
> > laying another clutch of eggs.
> >
> > "They continue to incubate the eggs which they've already laid, but
> > they're
> > not going to hatch."
> >
> > Professor Dawes says the only thing that can be concluded is that as
> > a
> > social, nesting species they communicate with each other.
> >
> > "Word got out that this was not a good place to nest and that they
> > weren't
> > going to rear young if they did nest there," she said.
> >
> > But it seems that warning message was only passed on among ibis, not
> > other
> > bird species.
> >
> > On the trial island, cormorants are now breeding in fig trees and a
> > camphor
> > laurel tree 20 metres above where the ibis had their eggs oiled.
> >
> > The researchers also say egg oiling may be a cheap and effective way
> > for
> > city councils to eradicate problem birds like the ibis and
> > potentially
> > starlings and pigeons.
> >
> > "One of the advantages of this is that it's a food oil and so there
> > are
> > absolutely no health or safety or environmental consequences to its
> > use,"
> > Professor Dawes said.
> >
> > "You could just go to the supermarket and buy the canola oil and use
> > that."
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > Behalf Of Gregory
> > Little
> > Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2008 4:38 PM
> > To: 'alan morris';
> > Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
> >
> >
> > Gooday Alan and all
> >
> > Just as an aside re Ibis, I was recently out on a daily walk along
> > the
> > back of Maryland on the edge of Hexham Swamp (near Newcastle, NSW)
> > and
> > as I passed a fellow walker I commented on how good it was to see
> > the
> > White Ibis nesting in a patch of nearby Paperbarks. He answered very
> > shortly "that they are a pest and steal food and bother people". I
> > assumed he meant those Ibis in Sydney at the Zoo and Hyde Park etc.
> >
> > Greg Little
> >
> > Greg Little - Principal Consultant
> > General Flora and Fauna
> > PO Box 526
> > Wallsend, NSW, 2287, Australia
> > Ph 02 49 556609
> > Fx 02 49 556671
> > www.gff.com.au
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > On Behalf Of alan morris
> > Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2008 4:17 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
> >
> > Hi Birders,
> > Can anyone tell me who to contact in respect to the colour-banding
> > project
> > of breeding White Ibis in the Sydney region?
> >
> > A contact of mine has been recording band numbers and colours, and
> > wants to
> > know to whom he should pass on the details?
> >
> > Alan Morris
> >
> > ===============================
> > www.birding-aus.org
> > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> > ===============================
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> > 9/01/2008 10:16 AM
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> > 9/01/2008 10:16 AM
> >
> >
> > ===============================
> > www.birding-aus.org
> > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> > ===============================
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> > 09/01/2008
> > 10:16 AM
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date:
> > 09/01/2008
> > 10:16 AM
> >
> > ===============================
> > www.birding-aus.org
> > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> > ===============================
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail
> > now.
> > ===============================
> > www.birding-aus.org
> > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:01:26 +1000
> From: peter crow <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
> To:
> Cc:
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Ibis are a pest because people fed them.
>
> People are the cause of the problem. Usually stupid people.
>
> The solution of destroying eggs is not a solution at all. It is not
> treating the cause but simply attempting to lessen the result of the
> problem.
>
> The problem is People feeding the birds.
>
> If there is no food for the Ibis to scavange from people the ibis
> will be no problem.
>
> Some, in fact much of the feeding is intentional. Watch the picnicers
> throwing food to the birds.
>
> So is unintentional but equally stupid where people leave food at
> overflowing bins or even on the ground beside bins.
>
> The killing of native species without a permit is illegal.
>
> Destroying eggs and nests is also illegal.
>
> on the Gold Coast the council were for years the cause and main
> feeder of ibis.
>
> They or their contractors spread refuse including lots of food waste
> over large areas of dumps daily and left large areas uncovered where
> thoousands of birds could feed.
>
> I understand this has been changed to some degree.
>
> Its time members of this list stood up for all native brds and spoke
> out strongly against those interested in "controlling species by any
> form of culling.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:18:15 +1100
> From:
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] White Ibis studies in Sydney Region
> To: peter crow <>
> Cc:
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> People are the cause of the problem I agree, and some measures have been
> undertaken in the
> Gold Coast City refuse tips to limit the amount of food avaibale and to
> trial techniques to
> discourage the ibis from landing at the tips to feed. But the program of
> nest and egg removal has
> ind is still very successful in contolling and reduncing the number of
> ibis on the Gold Coast. The
> Ibis were roosting in such large numbers that they are/were destroying the
> vegetation associated
> with their roosts. No hatched chicks or adults are directly harmed in the
> program, and in
> combination with measures undertaken at refuse tips it could be considered
> to very successful in
> reducing numbers of Ibis. Food is so readily avaibale that they are
> breeding twice in one season on
> te Gold Coast Region, and this program was conisdered an alterative to
> actually undertaking a cull
> as is approved by the EPA etc.
>
> It should be noted i have not been invloved in this program for anumber of
> years and only
> rpoviding information from when i was involved for 2 years undertaking
> ibis surveys ats refuse tips
> on behalf of the GCCC for the consultancy running the program.
>
> Regards, Simon Muirhead
>
> Quoting peter crow <>:
>
> > Ibis are a pest because people fed them.
> >
> > People are the cause of the problem. Usually stupid people.
> >
> > The solution of destroying eggs is not a solution at all. It is not
> >
> > treating the cause but simply attempting to lessen the result of the
> >
> > problem.
> >
> > The problem is People feeding the birds.
> >
> > If there is no food for the Ibis to scavange from people the ibis
> > will be no problem.
> >
> > Some, in fact much of the feeding is intentional. Watch the picnicers
> >
> > throwing food to the birds.
> >
> > So is unintentional but equally stupid where people leave food at
> > overflowing bins or even on the ground beside bins.
> >
> > The killing of native species without a permit is illegal.
> >
> > Destroying eggs and nests is also illegal.
> >
> > on the Gold Coast the council were for years the cause and main
> > feeder of ibis.
> >
> > They or their contractors spread refuse including lots of food waste
> >
> > over large areas of dumps daily and left large areas uncovered where
> >
> > thoousands of birds could feed.
> >
> > I understand this has been changed to some degree.
> >
> > Its time members of this list stood up for all native brds and spoke
> >
> > out strongly against those interested in "controlling species by any
> >
> > form of culling.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:10:21 +0930
> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Rarities Committees (long)
> To: Keith Weekes <>, Nikolas Haass
> <>
> Cc: Birding Aus <>
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> I followed the discussion on BARC while in Brisbane recently, and wish to
> add my perspective.
>
> I am a birding/natural history guide of some 25 year¹s experience. Most
> of
> my clients are Americans, many very experienced birders. For some decades
> I
> also worked as a biological consultant carrying out avifaunal (and other)
> surveys across the Top End and in the NW of WA. I led teams researching
> Gouldian Finch and their habitat across central and southern Top End.
>
> I¹m also the author or co-author of a number of bird books (more about
> this
> in a later email), and I lecture on birds for the University of NSW study
> abroad program.
>
> Yet a few years ago, my sightings of birds I know well but were out of
> normal range, were rejected by the local Atlassing committee. One, a
> Silver-backed Butcherbird, I spotted at Daly Waters in the Wet Season. I
> must admit, I was rather taken aback.
>
> On a recent trip down the Tablelands Highway, I saw flocks of Little
> Curlew,
> and Fork-tailed Swift, and noted Pictorella Mannikins and a Golden-backed
> Honeyeater. But given this past experience, and others I won¹t go into
> here, there is little incentive for me to submit any sort of official
> record. After all, if an authority believes I can¹t recognise a common
> bird
> such as Silver-backed Butcherbird, why should I waste my time?
>
> I would prefer to stick with my birding clients, who seem happy with my
> efforts, help my semi-traditional Aboriginal relatives preserve their
> occupancy of outstations in Arnhem Land, and try to do something about the
> spread of Gamba grass, a transformer species, that has the potential to
> wipe
> out more avifauna than you could shake a stick at.
>
>
> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow
> 1/7 Songlark Street
> BAKEWELL NT 0832
> Ph. 61 08 89 328306
> > www.denisegoodfellow.com
> http://web.mac.com/goodfellowdl
> > http://www.earthfoot.org
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming
> http://www.ausbird.com
>
> Entrant in Women Entrepreneurs:
> 18 Inspiring Stories of Small Business Success.
> A publication by the Australian Government¹s Office
> for Women and Small Business.
>
>
>
>
>
> on 18/12/07 6:55 AM, Keith Weekes at wrote:
>
> > Nikolas
> >
> > I don't think anyone is suggesting the committee members are "evil".
> They
> > are all widely respected birders and/or twitchers and as I understand it
> > mostly with appropriate scientific qualifications. I also understand the
> > rationale of being very cautious in accepting records.
> >
> > But, whether or not it's true, there is clearly a perception that BARC
> is a
> > bit of a club and that you shouldn't bother submitting interesting
> sightings
> > unless you have irrefutable evidence of them (not just your own
> sighting,
> > but photos, measurements, videos, DNA samples and so on) or you're a
> member
> > of the club. That's quite understandable of course. I think people also
> need
> > to inject a sense of reality into things and realise that it's
> appropriate
> > for BARC members to treat a report from someone they know for a fact to
> be
> > excellent at identifying birds in the field as more authoritative than a
> > report from an unknown.
> >
> > However, reading the reports there does seem to be a bit of a skew
> towards
> > trying as hard as possible to rule sightings out. It seems that there is
> an
> > attitude of "we're 99% sure but can't rule out x" so we're not allowing
> it.
> > (eg http://users.bigpond.net.au/palliser/barc/SUMM459.htm)
> >
> > I have no idea, but maybe a few more "false positives" in areas of
> > uncertainty and where it's not a "first sighting" would be of more
> > scientific value than the current system which seems to:
> >
> > (a) tend towards excluding records (possibly incorrectly); and
> > (b) discourage people from reporting.
> >
> > Also, there is an impression that even detailed field notes and
> observations
> > often don't seem to cut it. I know that if I ever come across a possible
> > American Golden Plover I'm just going to shoot the thing and submit the
> > corpse.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 17/12/2007, Nikolas Haass <> wrote:
> >>
> >> What is wrong with Australia's birders' attitude toward Rarities
> >> Committees?
> >>
> >>
> >> To my earlier post, I got several private responses which seemed to be
> >> driven rather by anger than anything else:
> >>
> >> "As for the committee members, many do it for their own ego, and
> nothing
> >> else."
> >>
> >> "To be told I need to look at feather length when plumage colour varies
> is
> >> ridiculous."
> >>
> >> "How can a group of people who weren't there say you didn't see a
> >> particular bird?"
> >>
> >> "It seems to me that if you don't have a camera or aren't part of the
> 'in'
> >> crowd, i.e. know someone on the committee then your record will almost
> >> certainly fail."
> >>
> >> "This is not a good system. It only serves to encourage the who gives a
> >> shit about the committee attitude."
> >>
> >> "This is also not helped by such comments as xxx's on the topic (of the
> >> magpie) who basically said don't bother putting in a submission form
> for the
> >> magpie as he will reject it."
> >>
> >> "Yes we need a system of checking claims, but we need one that either
> >> works or that people have confidence in (preferably both). At the
> moment we
> >> do not have such a system."
> >>
> >> "While the committee always treats submissions with respect that has
> not
> >> been the level of conduct of some members."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Here some of my comments in response:
> >>
> >>> How can a group of people who weren't there say you didn't see a
> >> particular bird? It seems to me that if you don't have a camera or
> aren't
> >> part of the
> >>> 'in' crowd, i.e. know someone on the committee then your record will
> >> almost certainly fail.
> >>> This is not a good system. It only serves to encourage the who gives a
> >> shit about the committee attitude. This is also not helped by such
> comments
> >> as
> >>> xxx's on the topic (of the magpie) who basically said don't bother
> >> putting in a submission form for the magpie as he will reject it.
> >>> Yes we need a system of checking claims, but we need one that either
> >> works or that people have confidence in (preferably both). At the
> moment we
> >> do
> >>> not have such a system.
> >>
> >> Again I can only speak for the many committees I have experience with
> and
> >> the three committees I worked for. You said "How can a group of people
> who
> >> weren't there say you didn't see a particular bird?". I agree it is
> >> difficult, but of course they can - it all depends on the quality of
> your
> >> report. Ideally you submit photographs, but usually you don't
> necessarily
> >> need to. If you report all the key field marks you observed, maybe draw
> a
> >> sketch pointing out important observed features and explain how and why
> you
> >> ruled out other similar species, your record should NOT fail! To my
> >> experience (which is an international experience), only a small
> minority of
> >> records are rejected - the idea is NOT to reject records, the idea is
> to
> >> make observations scientifically valid. Typically only very bad
> descriptions
> >> which don't rule out other more likely species or reports proving that
> the
> >> seen species is not the reported species (e.g. an accompanying
> photograph
> >> clearly
> >> shows another 'common' species) get rejected immediately (if all
> members
> >> agree). All 'tricky' ones will be discussed by all members of the
> committee
> >> and in many cases more experts will be asked for advice. Of course the
> >> committee members are humans and it can happen that a member looks at a
> >> perfect picture of a 'common species' which has been sent in as a 'rare
> >> species' and says "Bullshit". But this rare event shouldn't discourage
> good
> >> birders to contribute to science.
> >> It is also not true that the committees ignore escapees and releases -
> >> again I am speaking for other Rare Birds Committees, because I have no
> >> experience with BARC. These birds just end up in another category - one
> for
> >> released and escaped birds (e.g. if you saw a Flightless Cormorant
> [from
> >> Galapagos] in Australia it would end up in such a category). If
> populations
> >> of released or escaped birds are self-sustaining for a certain period
> >> (typically 10 years or so) these species will enter another category -
> one
> >> for self-sustaining populations of escaped or released birds (e.g.
> >> Eurasian Blackbird, ...).
> >> I do agree that the system is not ideal. But it is the best system we
> were
> >> able to come up with. BTW all members of the committees are volunteers.
> They
> >> spend their personal time and money (for travelling) to do this job. I
> >> really don't think those people are evil.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> So you are telling me to take a camera or don't bother submitting a
> >> report?
> >>
> >> I was telling you exactly the opposite: I said that typically if you
> >> report all the key field marks you observed you DON'T necessarily need
> a
> >> camera! (see e-mail above)
> >>
> >>> As for the committee members, many do it for their own ego, and
> nothing
> >> else.
> >>
> >> That's absolutely wrong for all the committees I know. All of us do
> this
> >> job without any advantage - however, we are putting quite some time
> into
> >> this volunteer work. I don't see any advantage for any kind of 'ego'.
> >> Especially since no committee member is allowed to review his/her own
> record
> >> (of course!).
> >>
> >>> To be told I need to look at feather length when plumage colour varies
> >> is ridiculous.
> >>
> >> That is not ridiculous. Many field guides are misleading regarding
> plumage
> >> colour. In many cases the RELATIVE length of certain feathers is an
> >> important key (e.g. tail projection, wing projection, primary
> projection
> >> etc.)
> >> And again: everybody can have his own personal list at home and no one
> >> would bother. However, I believe that it is a pity that many not
> reported
> >> sightings are lost for science. Therefore I still think it is the best
> to
> >> report to the appropriate committee.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My original post:
> >>
> >> I "give a shit what Rare Birds Committees think"! I can't speak for
> BARC.
> >> However, in my "American life" I was a member of the New Jersey Rare
> Birds
> >> Committee (NJBRC, the New Jersey counterpart of BARC) and in my "German
> >> life" I was a member of the Hessen Rare Birds Committee (AKH) and the
> >> Schleswig-Holstein Rare Birds Committee (AKSH) (two German counterparts
> of
> >> BARC). The idea of Rare Birds Committees is NOT to 'kill' a tick on
> >> someone's 'list'. No, the most important job of Rare Birds Committees
> is to
> >> peer review the documentation of a 'rare bird' (reports and photos,
> >> sketches, sound recordings - or whatever you submit), to collect,
> publish,
> >> and archive the records that prove that a 'rare bird' occurred.
> Therefore,
> >> documentation must eliminate any other species that might be confused
> with
> >> the claimed rarity. Some documentation is clear cut, such as a good
> >> photograph which shows identification characters. Some documentation is
> less
> >> clear cut, and that's why there is a large committee with a variety of
> >> specialties, opinions,
> >> and skills to vote on the evidence. To learn about recent range
> expansions
> >> of certain species it is also important to get an idea if a bird came
> on its
> >> own or was released by someone.
> >> Serious scientific journals only use data that were accepted by the
> >> responsible Rare Birds Committee for their analysis. That's why I'd
> like to
> >> encourage observers of a 'rarity' to document it, so that it can be
> used for
> >> scientific studies.
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Nikolas
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------
> >> Nikolas Haass
> >>
> >> Sydney, NSW
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> >> _______
> >> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> >> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >>
> >> www.birding-aus.org
> >> birding-aus.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> >> send the message:
> >> unsubscribe
> >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> >> to:
> >>
> > ===============================
> > www.birding-aus.org
> > birding-aus.blogspot.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> > ===============================
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:29:51 +1000
> From: "Natalia Atkins" <>
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Lapwings
> To:
> Message-ID:
> <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I was interested to hear the news about the lapwings in our area
> (Bulimba),
> so thankyou!! I just read something disturbing though - Minnippi Parklands
> will be converted into a Golf course /housing area, as of mid last year.
> It
> has been protested, due to it being the habitat of several endangered
> species. The developer said he'd put `no pet signs' around.the place,
> lol.
>
> That makes me so sad. I spend as much time as I can in the little patches
> of
> Urban forests around Brisbane. There is a whole world out of life in them,
> fiercing struggling to survive. Its a big loss.
>
> I'll eb sure to check out those lapwings though, and thanks so much for
> the
> news!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 07:10:45 +1000
> > From: peter crow <>
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Lapwings
> > To: BIRDING-AUS <>
> > Message-ID: <>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> >
> >
> > Minnippi Parklands is an area beside Bulimba Creek in Brisbane's
> > eastern Suburbs. It contains a small split lake which has been almost
> > completely dry for some time.
> > Masked Lapwings have taken over a dry area of mud in the southern
> > pond and it has not been uncommon to see a dozen or more there.
> > Over the last week we have had over 100mm of rain and the water level
> > has risen resulting in less bare mud but not enough water for most
> > water birds although a couple of Black Ducks were present.
> > The interesting thing is that yesterday there were at least 41 Masked
> > Lapwing on the remaining dry mud or in the shallow water.
> > I have seen large flocks of Banded Lapwing in the outback but never
> > such a large group of masked.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:29:33 +1100
> From: "Philip Jackson" <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] RFI Bulbuls in Melb
> To: "John Harris" <>,
> <>, "birdingBirding Aus"
> <>
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I walk my dogs in Wilson's Reserve at least once a week and I haven't seen
> or heard a Bulbul for the last 12 months either; in fact it has been at
> least 18 months. Without wishing to reignite the debate over introduced
> species, my few sightings of R-w Bulbuls at Wilson's Reserve gave me
> considerable pleasure and I will be sorry if they have died out. And no
> finger-wagging over dog ownership either!
> Philip Jackson
>
>
>
|
