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Mass breeding failures among northern seabirds

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Subject: Mass breeding failures among northern seabirds
From: "Dave Torr" <>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 05:54:57 +0000
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_solar_new.html indicates an energy payback period of around 2-3 years. http://www.ecotopia.com/apollo2/pvpayback.htm is also interesting.

I lived in Ireland around 3 years ago when the levy (I recall 25 Euro cents) on plastic bags was introduced - immediate reduction in rubbish in the environment (and there was a LOT of litter in Ireland) and the sky did not fall in - the Irish Supermarket chains coped very well - perhaps the Aussie ones are not as clever as the Irish. And for a country that is the target of many jokes (and I am not Irish!) they also seemed to give us a good example in banning smoking in pubs AND a total ban on mobile phones in cars - if you had one about your person, whether switched on or not, it was illegal (difficult to enforce!) And they got a lot more rain than us as well :-)


From: "Ricki Coughlan" <>
To: "Dave Torr" <>
CC: <>
Subject: Re: [BIRDING-AUS] Mass breeding failures among northern seabirds
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:39:43 +1000

Hi David

Don't be fooled by that stuff. It's not true that it takes more energy to
produce a solar panel than it can ever return, especially when economies of
scale are factored in. These kind of specious arguments are always put out
there by foolish naysayers, anti greens and other neo-cons who wish the
temporary bucks to keep flowing into their lives at all costs. We hear the
same nonsense arguments from the plastic shopping bag brigade, like; "where
will I put my garbage." or, "Growing all that cotton for making callico bags
costs water.", or, "where will I put my disposable nappies if I don't have
an old plastic shopping bag?".....Really!

Yes, our society has become structured around the use of motor vehicles and
everyone is extolled of the virtues of endless consumerism based on
uncontrolled greed and superficial, falsely generated "needs". So, we are
going to have to make voluntary change immediately or we will be forced to
and it will be painful.

The whole global warming disaster surely must be the greatest concern before all life on earth and yet our so-called leaders care not a jot for the issue and instead pick petty fights with one another and urge us all on to greater
greed as if there's no tomorrow. Grrrrrr.

Regards - Ricki





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