Aaaah , Transparency is a wonderful thing.
We need more of it, like who, or what agency, makes the final decision on the
Rio Development?
Michael Hunter
Sent from my iPhone
> On 24 Dec 2018, at 4:00 am, wrote:
>
> Send Birding-Aus mailing list submissions to
>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Birding-Aus digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. FW: Red Goshawks caught and netted during nesting season
> (Stephen Ambrose)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:14:12 +1100
> From: "Stephen Ambrose" <>
> To: <>
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] FW: Red Goshawks caught and netted during
> nesting season
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I?m just forwarding this email response from Stephen Debus, on behalf of
> Shirley Cook, who had trouble sending it through to Birding-aus this morning.
>
>
>
> Stephen Ambrose
>
> Ryde NSW
>
>
>
> From: shirleycook <>
> Sent: 23 December 2018 6:04 AM
> To: 'Stephen Ambrose' <>
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawks caught and netted during nesting
> season
>
>
>
> Dear Stephen
>
>
>
> Copied below is Steve Debus; response ? for some reason it bounced when I
> posted it to Birding-Aus.
>
>
>
> Hi Shirley,
>
>
>
> This case is a good example of trolls and detractors on blogs and chatlines
> going off half-cocked without knowing the full facts. For starters, the
> original RAOU Red Goshawk project in the ?80s got some invaluable data on a
> pair of Red Goshawks that were caught and radio-tracked (female in the
> breeding season, 2 young fledged) and they bred in the following season after
> they had shed their transmitters.
>
>
>
> The Weipa study is funded by Rio Tinto but the Red Goshawk work is conducted
> by expert raptor ecologists (and consultant ecologists as trained
> assistants), notably Dr Richard Seaton who was employed by Qld DEHP and now
> by AWC. He has extensive experience radio-tracking raptors. The project is
> overseen by the Red Goshawk Recovery Team, and the Team is privy to
> preliminary key data on female home range and juvenile dispersal.
> Transmitters can fail or fall off, so ?disappearance? could be a signal issue
> rather than goshawk death. Raptors are quite robust, and we only know from
> satellite transmitters e.g. that kestrel-sized falcons can make the return
> annual migration journey between Asia and Madagascar over 4 years.
> Responsibility for the Weipa study presumably shifted from the Qld government
> to consultants for Rio Tinto with Richard?s move from QDEHP to AWC. The
> Recovery Team is meeting in January, so we will undoubtedly be discussing the
> issues raised as well as data. T
> he data will be published in due course, and the study arose from Rio Tinto?s
> obligation to assess and minimise impact on a federally listed species. That
> can only be achieved with the necessary ecological information.
>
>
>
> Feel free to post the above. I hope all?s well, and best wishes for
> Christmas and 2019,
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
> Stephen Ambrose
> Sent: Saturday, 22 December 2018 3:59 PM
> To: 'Greg Roberts'
> Cc: 'birding-aus'
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawks caught and netted during nesting
> season
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> I think it is unethical for to us arrive at conclusions about the WA Night
> Parrot project when the researchers and members of the associated animal
> ethics committee are not directly involved in the discussion to give their
> side of the story. I actually don?t know much about what happened and I
> think most people who have a firm opinion on the issue are relying on 2nd or
> 3rd-hand information or opinions. If that is the case, how can anyone
> comment with authority and impartiality about the situation? Just my five
> cents worth ?
>
>
>
> Stephen Ambrose
>
> Ryde NSW
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Greg Roberts <
> <> >
> Sent: 22 December 2018 10:26 AM
> To: Stephen Ambrose < <> >
> Cc: birding-aus <
> <> >
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawks caught and netted during nesting
> season
>
>
>
> Thanks for your input Stephen.
>
>
>
> I have friends who have been members and even chaired animal ethics
> committees. I know there are good people out there doing good work.
>
>
>
> However , if we look at the WA Night Parrot example , how could that netting
> have been approved when no attempt was made to ascertain how many birds were
> there ? By some accounts there was just the single pair, and they are now
> gone. And what was the outcome when the ethics committee was informed of this
> unfortunate result?
>
>
>
> In the case of the Red Goshawk, it is difficult to make a more firm
> assessment when both the Queensland Environment Department and Rio Tinto
> refuse to answer questions.
>
>
>
> Greg Roberts
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 22 Dec 2018, at 8:50 am, Stephen Ambrose <
> <> > wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
>
>
> Perhaps you should have first-hand experience with animal ethics committees,
> either as a member of one or as a proponent of an animal research project.
> You would then realise the detailed justification that is required to be
> granted a permit, the level of thought required by the researcher regarding
> animal welfare, and the extent of reporting back to the committee on animal
> welfare outcomes of the research. If you did that then you would realise
> that your assertion of animal ethics approvals are freely-granted is
> incorrect. Animal ethics committees must ensure that all animal research
> projects conform with the Australian Code for the Care and Use of Animals for
> Scientific Purposes
> https://nhmrc.gov.au/about-us/publications/australian-code-care-and-use-animals-scientific-purposes
> . Note that animal ethics committees have at least one vet and a member of
> the public who has experience and expertise in animal welfare as members
> https://www.animalethics.org.au/animal-ethics-comm
> ittees , so there is real community input into this process.
>
>
>
> In my experience, and those of many other researchers, ethics committees
> respond to an initial application for animal ethics approval with a request
> for more information. This usually means that either not enough detail about
> the proposed research project was provided in the initial application, the
> committee has some questions that need answering, the committee has some
> genuine concerns about the project that need to be addressed by the
> researcher, or all or a combination of these things. Then there is the
> requirement of reporting back to the committee, either at regular intervals
> (if a long-term research project) or at the end of the project (if the
> project is short-term) on animal welfare issues. Researchers often grumble
> at the amount of paperwork, research justification and reporting that is
> involved, but animal ethics committees do really make a difference and are
> far from rubber-stamping entities.
>
>
>
> Stephen Ambrose
>
> Ryde NSW
>
>
>
> From: Birding-Aus <
> <> > On Behalf Of Greg Roberts
> Sent: 19 December 2018 4:17 PM
> To: birding-aus <
> <> >
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawks caught and netted during nesting season
>
>
>
> A moment to respond to some comments about this thread relating to this story:
>
>
>
> http://sunshinecoastbirds.blogspot.com/2018/12/endangered-red-goshawks-netted-and.html
>
>
>
> Angus says I am wrong to claim that the Queensland Government has handed over
> responsibility for the project to Rio Tinto. He might wish to explain this
> Queensland Environment and Science Department comment to me: "...this project
> is funded and led by Rio Tinto. All questions can be directed to them."
>
>
>
> Yes, the results of research need not be immediately available, but basic
> information should reasonably be expected to be made public. For instance,
> how many birds have been caught or will be caught, or have died or are
> missing? The Department of Environment and Science won't say. Rio Tinto
> won't say.
>
>
>
> As for animal ethics approval, it seems this is freely granted. It was given,
> for instance, for the netting and tagging of a Night Parrot in Western
> Australia last year; that critically endangered bird and its mate promptly
> disappeared.
>
>
>
> David says there are more important issues to be concerned about. Indeed.
> Like the fact that Rio Tinto is strip-mining tens of thousands of hectares of
> potential Red Goshawk habitat on Cape York.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg Roberts
>
> <>
>
> Blog: http://sunshinecoastbirds.blogspot.com.au/
>
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gregbirdo
>
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregrobertsqld
>
> Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sunshinecoastbirds/
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://birding-aus.org/mailman/private/birding-aus_birding-aus.org/attachments/20181223/3f2cc2ea/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Birding-Aus mailing list
>
> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Birding-Aus Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24
> *******************************************
<HR>
<BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
<BR>
<BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
<BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
</HR>
|
