Then add in the people who say they haven't seen a bird till they've
photographed it, then want a better photograph and the numbers swell!
On 21 May 2016 at 11:57, Kev Lobotomi <> wrote:
> I disagree with Paul Dodd.
> Twichers all have the same goal, which is to see a new bird. It has become
> a real sport now & which level you compete on is up to the individual. But,
> when it comes down to it, we all get a thrill out of seeing a new bird
> whether it be for our life, state or life etc. list! Yes, there are
> variations in what we each strive for. Some of us have different
> priorities, but ultimately the thrill of the chase see a new bird is what
> draws twitchers together. The Big Year is nothing more than an event, for
> tennis or golf players it is a Grand Slam, the Tour de France is for
> cyclists etc. Big Years are for people who like to challenge themselves &
> usually have too much time & money! All the Big Year is, is an event for
> serious twitchers who like a challenge and have the money and time to do
> it. Big Year twitchers only differ from other twitchers because that's what
> decide to participate in.
> I held the Australian record back in 1983 when I got 607 (using the
> taxonomy of the time) in one year, the first over 600 species in a year
> list. I didn't have too much money, but back in those days I had too much
> time. I didn't go to SW Australia, & visited none of our territories & did
> it by using public transport, travelling with friends and hitch hiking. I
> am a twitcher, but I wouldn't contemplate doing it again. It takes too much
> out of your life & I'd rather spend it doing other things now. My ultimate
> aim now is to enjoy the birds & if a new one pops up, off I go, but only if
> I can afford it.
>
> Kevin Bartram
>
>
>
> > From:
> > To: ;
> > Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 10:27:28 +1000
> > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] John Weigel
> > CC: ; ;
>
> >
> > And I reckon it's even more nuanced than that.
> >
> > Just adding to Eric's subsequent post.
> >
> > I have never partaken of a "big year" challenge and could by no means
> classify myself as a "dedicated lister/twitcher" either.
> > Do I have an interest in how many Australian species I have "Atlassed"
> in my travels? You bet (now > 600 and that gives great satisfaction)
> >
> > And at my venerable stage and having lived overseas with boxes of
> notebooks I am having great fun with "Scythebill" gradually discovering
> what my "Life List" is. Just a fab way to re-live some great experiences.
> >
> > I suspect I defy classification? Or maybe I will be seen as a "half
> hearted" participant? Work and budget have definitely intervened at times
> that's a fact.
> >
> > Actually on reflection I think it's the place, the experience, the
> habitat, the value of the "citizen science" and an understanding of ecology
> that comes first with numbers and photography an added interest.
> >
> > To each his own and suspect there are many "hybrids" like me. That
> doesn't say I don't admire the dedication, contribution and value of the
> "big year" and "lister" fraternity.
> >
> > Good birding to all I say and the more attention we attract perhaps the
> better the conservation outcome.
> >
> > Graeme Stevens
> >
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 00:39:55 +1000
> > > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] John Weigel
> > > CC: ; ;
>
> > >
> > > First of all I want to untangle the notion that someone that conducts
> a "Big
> > > Year" is also a "Big Lister". The two are absolutely poles apart. Ruth
> and I
> > > have conducted our own "Big Year" in Victoria, and whilst we do travel
> the
> > > world, bird watching, we are as far from being big listers as most
> people
> > > that I know.
> > >
> > > A Big Year is all about seeing as many species as possible in a certain
> > > geographic area within one calendar year. A Big List is about seeing
> as many
> > > birds as possible in the world in a lifetime. A Big Year is about
> > > challenging oneself and other Big Year participants (past and present)
> - it
> > > is, in essence, a competition. A Big Lister, on the other hand, has the
> > > luxury of time, and is generally not competing with anyone, past or
> present.
> > >
> > > Big Listers, as a rule, use guides. Big Year participants, as a rule
> do not.
> > > In fact, when Ruth and I did our Big Year in Victoria, we used a guide
> only
> > > once, and that was Simon Starr who helped us see Plains Wanderer. As
> people
> > > that travel all over the world, Ruth and I ALWAYS use local guides in
> the
> > > countries we visit - not necessarily to identify the birds (we have
> done our
> > > homework, after all) - for the sole purpose of managing the logistics,
> and
> > > getting us to the right place.
> > >
> > > People have questioned the "practicality" of Big Years. When Sean
> Dooley did
> > > his Big Year, there was no doubt in anyone's mind that seeing 700
> species in
> > > Australia was impossible. Sean, of course, proved "them" wrong by
> seeing 704
> > > species. When John Weigel did his Big Years, there was no doubt that
> Sean's
> > > record was almost impossible to reach, JW proved everyone wrong by
> seeing
> > > 745 species. In his second year and second attempt, JW saw 770 species.
> > > Surely this suggests that 800 species in Australia (and its
> territories) in
> > > a calendar year is possible?
> > >
> > > When Ruth and I conducted our Big Year, we only had one goal in mind -
> to
> > > beat Tim Dolby's record, set the previous year, of 345 species seen in
> > > Victoria. In actual fact, Ruth and I beat that number in June of 2010
> (by
> > > seeing Little Penguin at St Kilda). We ultimately went on to see 392
> species
> > > (IOC taxonomy) in Victoria, surely suggesting 400 species in this
> state is
> > > possible.
> > >
> > > Peter Shute mentions the problem of proof or verification. I suggest
> that
> > > cheaters and frauds are soon found out. Ruth and I found several rare
> > > species in Victoria in 2010, that would normally have people
> questioning
> > > either our honesty or our ID skills - both were, in fact, questioned
> during
> > > the year. Ultimately though, if you have integrity, it is hard to
> suggest or
> > > prove that you were doing the wrong thing. For instance, we saw
> Spangled
> > > Drongo in Victoria in 2010 (in actual fact, we saw this species twice
> in
> > > Victoria in that year). We were challenged by one of the moderators of
> > > Birdline Victoria (we obviously posted on that site), and our response
> was
> > > simple - we actually used Birdline to indicate when and where rare
> species
> > > were found and went to those locations to find the birds - the
> moderator
> > > simply had not looked at the previous postings on their own site! We
> also
> > > found Red-chested Button-quail in Victoria - normally an impossible
> species
> > > to find in this state. I found the birds simply by looking for
> historical
> > > records and going to those locations on the off-chance. One of the
> locations
> > > looked like suitable habitat and we spent more than three hours
> quartering a
> > > native-grassland paddock in 40 degree temperatures until we flushed a
> bird
> > > and had a good-enough view to identify the species. Obviously our
> sighting
> > > was met with a high degree of scepticism, but the following weekend a
> group
> > > of birders attended the same site, and applying the same procedure,
> > > identified the same species.
> > >
> > > If asked about the number of kilometres travelled or other such
> questions,
> > > to date I have declined to answer. I feel that by asking that
> question, the
> > > asker is establishing a particular point-of-view. Instead, I argue that
> > > despite the carbon footprint, a Big Year has a certain value - and the
> most
> > > immediate value is that people genuinely want to hear about it - and I
> am
> > > talking about non-birders here. In and of itself a Big Year, whether
> > > state-based, country (or region)-based or worldwide is going to be of
> > > interest. And by writing books or blogs, and by public presentations,
> people
> > > are engaged in this activity we call "bird watching". My experience
> with a
> > > Big Year is that in the end it certainly *does* become about the
> journey,
> > > rather than the target - one becomes very fixated on the birds rather
> than
> > > the number. By virtue of the fact that we needed to see certain birds,
> we
> > > became far more interested in the available habitat - so we certainly
> > > developed a deeper understanding of where to look for birds.
> > >
> > > My experience with Big Listers is that they tend to be more private -
> Big
> > > Listing is a personal activity, with personal goals, rather than being
> > > public. This is neither right nor wrong, it is simply the way it is.
> Whether
> > > Big Listers develop the same affinity for birds and habitat, or
> whether Big
> > > Listers are fixated on just a number, I suggest depends on the birder.
> I am
> > > absolutely certain that there are Big Listers that could care less
> about the
> > > birds and are only interested in the "tick", and I am equally certain
> that
> > > there are Big Listers that absolutely interested in the species and the
> > > habitat.
> > >
> > > Ruth and I are NOT Big Listers - we are Big Year participants. I know
> of
> > > nobody that is both a Big Lister and a Big Year participant. Since this
> > > thread started with a discussion about John Weigel, I should point out
> that
> > > I know John very well. John is definitely NOT a Big Lister - John is a
> Big
> > > Year participant. John is also a person of the utmost personal
> integrity and
> > > someone that I would not have any question should he say that he's
> seen a
> > > Curlew Sandpiper in the lower 48.
> > >
> > > Paul Dodd
> > > Docklands, Victoria
> > >
> > >
> > >
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