Hi everyone,
I have to say I feel exactly the same as Paul. At least to me, there is a
huge difference between personal experience and knowledge you gain by
reading books. For example size and shape differences (i.e. jizz) do not
show very clearly in the field guides and usually one needs to see enough
e.g. both of two similar species to start to understand the subtle
differences between them, which on the other hand would seem very clear to
an experienced birder.
I have a saying that I keep repeating to birders: "Remember that we have
all been beginners once." With that I mean we all needed to practise our
skills at some point to learn the art of birding. And I'm pretty sure we
all appreciated the help from more experienced birders. For example, in my
teenage years, I remember struggling over the identification of Goshawk and
Sparrowhawk, Buzzards, Hobby and Peregrine(!), different waders of all
ages, different sounds and songs, gulls etc. Now those things seem fairly
easy and straightforward to me, but I needed to see enough of them to start
to spot the differences.
I have learned a lot from more experienced birders in my youth, and now
that I'm one of the more experienced ones, I am more than happy to help
people by e.g. pointing out ID details when I can.
By the way, here is what I answered directly to Neil (didn't remember to
use the "reply to all" feature):
"Hi Neil,
To my opinion, the bird is definitely a Peregrine.
Note the stocky body and broad wings, and that you can't really see any
rufous coloring on the underside plumage. There are also differences in the
color and the shape of the black hood. If one hasn't seen a lot of them,
they tend to be tricky to tell apart, but along with some experience one
starts to notice the difference in the jizz even from afar.
Cheers from Finland,
-Harry"
2013/1/31 Paul Dodd <>
> I could not agree less with you on this, Philip. Yes, field guides DO show
> the differences between species and often highlight the differences between
> them. However, it is often the subtle or, at least, not immediately obvious
> differences that are diagnostic. I, for instance, really enjoy the debate
> and discussion on gull and tern ID as I believe that by following this
> discussion it allows me to build my knowledge and will give me the ability
> to participate in these discussions in the future. Anyone can look up a
> field guide and see that there *are* differences between Common, Arctic and
> White-fronted Terns, for example, but to have an expert in the field
> describe the process that they use to identify a tern from a photograph is
> incredibly helpful. In the case of an Australian Hobby and a Peregrine
> Falcon the differences may be more pronounced, but it is no less valuable
> to
> hear an expert point out the key ID features - furthermore, we may have
> absolutely no idea of the level of expertise of the people that are
> requesting assistance with ID, so to help them out with the key features to
> look for is beneficial both to them, and to others reading birding-aus that
> may have similar questions. One of the things that people refer to often
> about birding-aus subscribers is their generosity in providing information
> when requested - let's not kill that off by referring people to field
> guides
> instead of helping them.
>
> Paul Dodd
> Docklands, Victoria
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Philip
> Veerman
> Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013 1:27 PM
> To: 'Tom Tarrant'; 'Greg and Val Clancy'
> Cc:
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Hobby or Peregrine?
>
> Tom,
>
> Yes maybe, in the case of a doubtful identification but there is a limit to
> how much we should all be retyping the text of field guides. People do have
> other things to do. Someone else already provided hints and I could do so
> too and add some and sometimes I do, but in this case, there are multiple
> cues available on this series of photos why it is Peregrine Falcon, these
> are pretty much as described and shown in the various field guides.
>
> Philip
>
> -----Original Message-----From:
> On Behalf Of Tom Tarrant
> Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:02 AM To: Greg and Val Clancy
> Cc: Birding-Aus Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Hobby or Peregrine?
>
> Greg,
>
> It might be a bit more helpful to the list if you elaborate why you reach
> that conclusion....
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Greg and Val Clancy
> <>wrote:
>
> > They are Peregrine Falcons.
> >
> > Greg
> > Dr Greg. P. Clancy
> > Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
> > PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
> > 0266493153 0429601960
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Sandra & Neil Shelley Sent:
> > Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:47 PM To: Birding-Aus Aus Subject:
> > [Birding-Aus] Hobby or Peregrine? Observed a pair of falcons at
> > Gunnamatta Ocean Beach (Victoria) on Tuesday, but can't decide if they
> > were Australian Hobby or Peregrine Falcon.
> >
> > Photos can be viewed at
> > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/**9k20m0ybd9fp03b/s-fJW_Ywyb<https://www.dr
> > opbox.com/sh/9k20m0ybd9fp03b/s-fJW_Ywyb>
> >
> > *Neil Shelley*
>
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