Ok cool. I only had 2 photos of birds that I could be confident were T.
steadi (because they were breeding at Auckland Island) - so it's probably
good to note that limitation with my assessment (Thanks to Bill Abbott for
the photos!). I have some vague plans of visiting the breeding islands for
both species at some point in the next few years, so if that happens, or if
anybody else is visiting either, it would be great to get a large number of
photos of many birds to do a more robust comparison.
Thanks,
Jeremy
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Jeff Davies <>wrote:
> Nikolas is correct, ****
>
> ** **
>
> when the outer most primary is without a white inner web and entirely dark
> it shows up best in flight as a right angled step. But I can find no
> evidence that it is exclusively a steadi feature or that they always show
> it. Would have been handy if it worked but the feature doesn’t work as far
> as I can tell.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers Jeff.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Nikolas Haass
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 27 June 2012 9:31 AM
> *To:* Jeremy O'Wheel; Jeff Davies
> *Cc:* birding-aus
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Birding-Aus] Shy Albatross vs White-capped Albatross****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Jeremy, Jeff et al.,****
>
> ** **
>
> I second the point about the yellow base of the culminicorn in cauta.****
>
> ** **
>
> I also use the underprimary pattern - i.e. the 'step' in p8-p10 caused by
> more solid dark grey on both webs - to ID a 'possible steadi', as opposed
> to the throughout 'comb'-patterned underprimaries for a 'possible cauta'
> (caused by dark grey outer webs and white inner webs). However, there seems
> to be much variation and there seems to be no robust evidence at all at
> this point (to my knowledge there is still nor peer-reviewed paper on this
> field mark).****
>
> I disagree that this pattern is more obvious when the wing is spread. I
> think the opposite: When the wing is 'overly' spread all primaries appear
> bicoloured - even in a Salvin's Albatross, which normally should have a
> solid dark wingtip (caused by all grey visible undersides of the primaries).
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> ** **
>
> Nikolas****
>
> ****
>
> ----------------
> Nikolas Haass
>
> Sydney, NSW****
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Jeremy O'Wheel <>
> *To:* Jeff Davies <>
> *Cc:* birding-aus <>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:43 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Birding-Aus] Shy Albatross vs White-capped Albatross****
>
>
> Thanks everyone for replies, especially those that sent photos - they were
> very helpful.
>
> My opinion, which is admittedly still based on very limited evidence is
> this;
>
> T. cauta (Tasmanian Shy) has a yellow dot at the base of its beak when
> breeding (or at some point during its life), but doesn't always have this -
> so if you see a bird with this mark, I'd be happy to call it T. cauta, but
> if it doesn't have it, it still could be.
>
> T. steadi never has the yellow dot, but does have black leading underwing
> primaries (probably P8-10) - however the colour of the other primaries in
> both species does vary a bit, so you can get birds with those 3 primaries
> black, and the rest white, or you can get ones where the difference between
> those 3 and the others is almost negligible - however if they're black,
> it's T. steadi. It's also more difficult to spot this difference with
> birds in flight, than when they spread their feathers a little landing and
> taking off. So ideally, to separate the species when they don't have a
> yellow dot, you need a high quality photo of the underside of the primaries
> landing or taking off.
>
> However, I should add that this conclusion is based on very few photos, and
> one stuffed bird, (as well as some anecdotes), so I'm definitely open to
> more robust evidence.
>
> regards,
>
> Jeremy O'Wheel
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Jeff Davies <
> >wrote:
>
> > G'day Jeremy,
> >
> > I have also been looking at the under-wing issue between these two for
> the
> > last couple of years and have found equal variation of blackness in the
> > under-primaries for both. The bill colour seems to be a good feature
> > however. I will look closer at these two birds next year but would be
> very
> > interested to hear any other insights into this pair you may uncover
> > yourself.
> >
> > Cheers Jeff.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > On Behalf Of Jeremy
> > O'Wheel
> > Sent: Friday, 22 June 2012 3:10 PM
> > To: birding-aus
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Shy Albatross vs White-capped Albatross
> >
> > G'day all,
> >
> > Recently I've been having some discussion about the differences between
> the
> > Tasmanian Shy Albatross - T. cauta - and the New Zealand White-capped
> > Albatross - T. steadi (or T. cauta cauta/steadi depending on your
> > taxonomy).
> > Various sources seem to indicate that breeding T. cauta have a yellow
> spot
> > at the upper base of the beak, while T. steadi never have this yellow
> dot.
> > It has also been suggested that T. steadi has black primaries
> > 8,9,10 while on T. cauta they are black and white.
> >
> > I was wondering if anybody know more about the differences, especially
> > differences that can be identified in the field, or can confirm or deny
> the
> > differences I've suggested? I was also wondering if anybody have photos
> of
> > either species/spp. nesting at their various locations with the
> underwings
> > visible (esp. P8-10)?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeremy O'Wheel
> > ===============================
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
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> >
> > http://birding-aus.org
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> >
> >
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> ****
>
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