Hi Rob,
Yes, it is capacity and not age that counts, but as you point out that frailty
was an issue it is bonkers to accept frail people on a tour like this. I am
sympathetic to the point that Wim made about tours being more likely to cater
for the older birder. BUT it is false advertising if they advise that a
moderate to high level of fitness is required and then accept bookings from
people who cannot keep up with the itinerary. In your shoes I would not be a
happy camper!!
A friend went on a PNG trip a few years back and came across the same issue.
However the response of the head guide was very different - if the itinerary
said something was going to happen then it did (even if only 1 person in the
group stll wanted to do it) and those who could not keep up were left behind in
camp.
I know that some would argue that if the majority wanted to skip an activity
set down in the itinerary, then that would be OK. I might roll over and accept
it a couple of times (heaven forbid, I could even forsee circumstances where I
might want to take time out from a hectic itinerary!) but if there were
multiple activities on the itinerary that were not done because of the fitness
levels of the participants then I would expect some sort of recompense.
Thanks for the post!
Judith
From:
To:
CC:
Subject: Feedback on Rockjumpers PNG birding Tour July-August 2011 - Between a
rock and a hard place so think before you jump!
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 00:34:51 +0000
HI Judith
I guess age isn't the major issue as you suggest - it was fitness. A number
were well into their 70s and so there were fitness / frailty issues and age is
a factor.
And yes - it was because it was the first time in PNG and safety is an issue>
Rob Morris
Brisbane, Australia
From:
To:
CC:
Subject: Feedback on Rockjumpers PNG birding Tour July-August 2011 - Between a
rock and a hard place so think before you jump!
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 00:02:29 +0000
Hi Rob,
I was wondering exactly what you mean by participants being 'old' ?? Is that
60, 70 or older. I have seen many decrepit 50 year olds and many fit 70 year
olds! So it is really not about age but about capacity - which clearly was
lacking in your group. As the tour company identified that the trip was
moderate to hard with a high level of fitness required, then I think you are
justified in being totally miffed! Apart from anything else, one would imagine
the company is in breach of a duty of care if it accepts bookings from people
who lack the capacity to withstand the rigors of the trip. You are also right
about the number of participants - way too many.
I know most of your trips are self organized. Was this not an option in PNG
because of safety issues? I would be very interested to know if any other
people have successfully undertaken self organized tours in the region.
On a side note, I see that a number of people have mentioned doing tours to
India with Rockjumpers. Can I just say that doing a self organized trip to
India is pretty easy to do. Although it is possible to organize rail travel on
the internet, it does help to have an agent on the ground over there to do that
for you but even this may not be an issue if you have plenty of time to
organize the trip. I had less than a month's notice to put the trip together
and the timing was a bit off because we went at a time when most Indians are
also on holiday. It took me a week of fairly intensive internet activity to
organize a complex 25 day itinerary for 3 people with 3 internal flights, one
full day train trip and one overnight train trip, guides and drivers for 16
days. The TOTAL cost (including every rupee spent on tips, food and drinks)
was $7,500 for the 3 of us (airfares to India on Frequent Flyer points). One
of our guides was awful and that 'cost' us more than a few birds
.
Apart from that we saved a bucket of money and did exactly what we wanted to do
when we wanted to do it. I cannot wait to go back. In the next couple of
years we will go to Assam and I will certainly not be going with an organized
tour.
Regards
Judith
Judith Hoyle
Brisbane
0437549301
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 23:05:05 +0000
> CC: ;
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Feedback on Rockjumpers PNG birding Tour
> July-August 2011 - Between a rock and a hard place so think before you jump!
>
>
> Dave
>
> I agree with your points!
>
> PNG was specified as moderate to hard and a high level of fitness was
> required! Only the guides and I were fit. I was 80kgs when I left and 71kgs
> when I got back! But i probably walked at least 2x what the group did! Most
> of them were probably larger on return as while they were having 3 course
> lunches I was birding!
>
> Rob Morris
>
> Brisbane, Australia
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 10:01:45 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Feedback on Rockjumpers PNG birding Tour
> July-August 2011 - Between a rock and a hard place so think before you jump!
> From:
> To:
> CC: ;
>
> I think there are two issues to consider on birding trips:
>
> Firstly the number of people and the type of terrain - if it is mainly
> rainforest birding then obviously the smaller the group the better - although
> this tends to increase the cost of course. Open country birding is fine with
> a group of this size - I did NW India with Rockjumper and a group of this
> size and there were no problems as it was all desert, wetlands and fairly
> open forest.
>
> Secondly is the degree of difficulty - many operators indicate if the
> birding/terrain is easy, moderate or hard. I would certainly not go with an
> operator who did not specify this - of course not much an operator can do if
> they say it is hard and unfit people come I guess
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 1 January 2012 20:01, robert morris <> wrote:
>
>
> This is the feedback I gave to Rockjumpers about a tour I went on to PNG in
> August 2011. If you are a serious birder, I would not recommend travelling on
> their tour with 9 or 10 others. be warned or at least prepared.... I did not
> receive an evaluation form before departing from the leaders - and I am happy
> to give constructive feedback. It won't be pretty but the leaders will be
> perfectly aware of all the major issues: 1. the people on the tour were too
> old, unfit and had virtually no birding skills or knowledge2. because of 1
> they: a) needed long rests ( I would go and bird alone most days in the
> breaks of up to 4 hours!). b) were more interested in eating than birding. c)
> could not walk far and struggled to walk up hill. Some trails were not even
> attempted. d) took a huge amount of time to see the birds. This was mainly
> because there was 1 scope between the 10 people and most had poor eye-sight.
> e) there were 12-14 pe
> ople going down narrow trails looking for shy birds which is a joke. I left
> the group to bird independently at every opportunity. f) they made night
> birding a complete nightmare and I felt guilty for continuously raising the
> issue. I actually had to be left alone in remote locations in PNG jungles for
> many hours on end to see difficult species - such as Papuan hawk Owl. I did
> not in any way dislike the group or any individuals - but birding wise it
> ranged from a joke to a nightmare. These trips are NOT for real birders. They
> are for OLD people who are generally happy to spend 1 second looking down a
> telescope to tick something. If they glimpse a bird, a shadow etc. most of
> them count what they are told they've seen. I had my own Leica 77 for the
> whole trip and I was completely independent from the queue at one leader's
> scope (the other leader rarely took his because it wasn't working properly).
> Add to the above the amount of time we stood around waiting for buses
> to show up because the agent didn't have control of what was going on (we
> lost many, many hours of birding time), descriptions in the published
> itineraries which are at best 'economical with the truth' and good local bird
> guides that Rockjumpers booked and paid for who were 'unavailable' e.g.
> Daniel Wakra was guiding others when he should have been with us, and I spent
> most of the very trip frustrated. The leaders did help try me to bird alone
> where possible which I really appreciated and I did see a lot more birds than
> the general group - but overall I was bitterly disappointed with the whole
> experience. I actually feel really sorry for the leaders in a situation like
> this. Cheers
> Rob Morris
> Rob Morris
>
>
>
> Brisbane, Australia
>
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