Hello Marilyn,
>
> It's a hard road for any of us who put up an alternative humane view about
> conservation research. If we oppose the "research at any cost" mentality
> that is now so prevalent, well lookout mate! I am not a philosopher but
> sometimes I wonder if some of my opponents are part of the "Scientic Welfare
> lobby" that use bird banding as some justification to extort field operating
> funds from Government. Whatever it is, there are many so called scientists
> who mercilessly exploit our birds and treat them simply as just another
> sustainable natural resource to be used on a whim.
>
Like Lord Hartington (See Gladstone's Speeches), you do not have any
way of obtaining the same information that banding provides. My favourite
biologist writes that we seem to constantly carp about the dangers of
science without noting that the development of science has gotten rid of
several disadvantages of the past, and not only that, but is constantly
working to improve on the current situation, that the problems the
development of science and technology poses are soluble by the development
of science and technology. As I pointed out a while back, in the last
century we used to kill specimens for biological research. We shouldn't
object to the fact that that was done without thinking about the
alternative - that we wouldn't have a theory of evolution. While it is
fair enough for you to ask to be treated courteously, it is also only fair
that you treat everyone else similarly. The term "so called scientists"
seems to be quite an abusive one. As a scientist myself, I must take
offence at the term, since its target is not very clear.
> The fact is that many of the banders actions continue to harm a lot of birds
> and therefore, MOST banding and leg flagging should be stopped.
> Through intense interference by banders crushing nearly every nesting burrow
> within the colony, over successive years the birds were all but wiped out.
> The banders blamed every one else but themselves but there is no doubt about
> where the destruction was coming from.
>
Firstly, we have been given no proof of just how extensive such excesses
are. If there is proof that bird banding is being done harmfully, you
should bring it forward instead of making (I don't mean the following to
be offensive, merely a statement of fact) statements along the line of "It
is obvious that..." I am not going to deny that there is banding that is
done destructively, however, I am convinced that it can be done humanely,
and that it is in fact done as humanely as possible until such a time as
someone proves otherwise. I am not accusing anyone of lying. What I am
saying is that different people have different ideas of what is sufficient
harm to justify outside intervention, and that it is the duty of the
prosecuting side (I don't mean this merely as a legal flourish: It is
quite a sensible general approach to things I find) to provide the
evidence. Also, one should be careful about accusing a majority of
people. The evidence mightn't support such an accusation.
> When i was a younger woman, I witnessed this and it was terrible. Perhaps
> one day we should discuss the impact of regurgitation caused by handling
> adult birds before returning to their young waiting to be fed. Have the
> Storm-Petrels returned to Mud Islands? Before I am criticised for this view,
> how many of you seen what happens when banders move into a Crested Tern
> colony where gulls are constantly waiting to attack unprotected young? Of
> course the heroes who suffer the heat, the mosquitoes and sand flies will
> continue to portray themselves as martyrs who are actively saving our
> environment(Perhaps they should try living on some aboriginal communities up
> here during the wet).
>
Different people have different levels of tolerance. No one that I know
has on this list complained about what they suffer, but the pure fact of
their complaint shouldn't be held against them. We always like to portray
ourselves in a heroic light, and we always find it easier to sympathise
with ourselves than others. Why should researchers as a group be expected
to behave by higher standards? I have no doubt there is some harm done to
individual birds in the course of bird-banding. I think that such harm
can, should and is being minimised. If you want to argue otherwise, (a)
prove that there is some other way of obtaining similar data (b)prove that
the people involved are not doing their best to minimise such harm.
Arguing by itself won't do. Presenting the facts will.
> Of course active research is necessary to aid the conservation and
> protection effort, but I will continue to argue that most bird banding is
> done more to satisfy the urge for fun under the guise of research and that
> most of it is not necessary at all.
>
I think this is a value judgement on a number of people, most of whom
are dedicated researchers. You should be careful before making such
statements. Appeals to emotion aren't a way of conducting a scientific
debate. I am sure that most people who are engaged in such research, if
not all, at the very least, sincerely believe that they are doing what
they do in the best interests of the birds themselves. To portray them as
deranged sadistic maniacs is unfair. They might not (though I do not
concede this) see the downside of some of the research they do, but they
aren't doing anything for the 'fun' of seeing animals in pain. We simply
have had emotional arguments and unsupported value judgements from your
side. Do not merely say 'most of which is not necessary at all'. Prove
that most of the information gathered is wrong or unnecessary. Until such
a time, these attacks will continue to be regarded as a mere nuisance.
Kiran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kiran Krishna
3rd yr physics
(Falkiner High Energy Physics)
University of Sydney
NSW 2006
--------------------------------------------
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest
political end.
- Lord Acton
Both liberty abd property are precarious, unless the posessors have sense
and spirit enough to defend them.
- Junius (Philip Francis Jr)
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/hienergy
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~kiran
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