There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Sony ECM-979 MS
From: Flawn Williams
1b. Re: Sony ECM-979 MS
From: Kevin Lucas
2. FW: Recording Pelagic Bird Calls
From:
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Sony ECM-979 MS
Posted by: "Flawn Williams" flawn1951
Date: Thu Jul 7, 2016 5:20 am ((PDT))
One of the lesser-known aspects of Mid-Side miking is that the decoding process
is reversible.
Let’s say you have a stereo recording from an MS microphone like the Sony
ECM-979, which does not offer Mid and Side outputs but instead decodes those
signals to Left and Right before exiting the mic (with, apparently, a
two-position switch for 90 or 120 degree image width).
You can run that Left and Right audio through an MS decoder plug-in in any
popular DAW. What you will get out of that plug-in will be the Mid and Side
signals! You can then apply processing to one or the other channels (say, to
filter bass rumble wind noise from the Side signal), and then run the Mid and
Side signals through an MS decoder again to re-derive a Left and Right image.
If you don’t have a purpose-built MS decoder plug-in (free ones are available
for most DAW formats), or if you want to do MS decoding using a hardware mixing
board, you can do that as long as you have a means of polarity-inverting the
Side signal. It takes up three channels on the mixer: one for the Mid signal
(panned center), one for the Side signal (panned left), and one for a
polarity-inverted feed of the Side signal (panned right). The two faders for
the Side signals should be grouped for equal loudness.
One thing to note about at least some of those inexpensive Sony “MS” mics,
though, is that they did not use a forward facing mid mic and a side-facing
bidirectional mic like true Mid Side pairs. Instead they used an array of three
cardioid mics facing left, center, and right, and mixed those to achieve their
two channel stereo output.
What’s the big deal about Mid Side? It always has a mic element facing the
center, so the center of your image has full high frequency detail. Then you
can add in as much Side signal as you like to widen the stereo image. XY
stereo, in contrast, uses two coincident cardioid mics facing 45 degrees left
and 45 degrees right of center. That means that the center of your image is 45
degrees off-axis for both of those mikes. Unless your cardioid mikes have
perfect directional patterns across all frequencies (and let’s face it, almost
none do), the high frequency content of the center of your image will be
degraded in XY.
—Flawn
> On Jul 7, 2016, at 4:23 AM, wrote:
>
> 3a. Re: Sony ECM-979 MS
> Posted by: "Scott Fraser" scottbfraser
> Date: Wed Jul 6, 2016 9:34 am ((PDT))
>
> < " I believe you only get decoded LR output from these." meaning what
> please? Excuse my ignorance, but M/S is something I’ve not ventured into
> before. >
>
> The output of an MS array is not stereo, but rather components (forward
> facing mono & a side facing mono mix of left + right, out of polarity.) This
> raw signal needs to be decoded with an MS matrix in order to derive true
> stereo, i.e. what was to the left of the mic comes mostly out of the left
> speaker, etc. I believe the Sony MS mics (relying on 20+ year old memory of
> using these mics,) output decoded Left Right stereo, & do not give you access
> to the raw mid & side components. This is only of importance if you have an
> interest in altering the width of the decoded stereo signal. With the raw MS
> signal one can adjust the stereo width, from 100% compatible mono, through to
> somewhat wider than XY stereo. Personally, I don’t think that’s a big
> deal, though film & video post production mixers seem to like having that
> option.
> SF
>
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Sony ECM-979 MS
Posted by: "Kevin Lucas" kslbirder
Date: Thu Jul 7, 2016 7:41 am ((PDT))
Flawn,
I'm a newbie and lurker on the naturerecordists group. I've only done a
very little simple recording. I don't have any Sony Mid Side equipment.
Your explanation is superb. Thank you for the effort you put into it. I
hope for the sake of lots of people that you write a lot.
Kevin Lucas
Selah, WA
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 5:20 AM, Flawn Williams
[naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
>
> One of the lesser-known aspects of Mid-Side miking is that the decoding
> process is reversible.
>
> Let’s say you have a stereo recording from an MS microphone like the Sony
> ECM-979, which does not offer Mid and Side outputs but instead decodes
> those signals to Left and Right before exiting the mic (with, apparently, a
> two-position switch for 90 or 120 degree image width).
>
> You can run that Left and Right audio through an MS decoder plug-in in any
> popular DAW. What you will get out of that plug-in will be the Mid and Side
> signals! You can then apply processing to one or the other channels (say,
> to filter bass rumble wind noise from the Side signal), and then run the
> Mid and Side signals through an MS decoder again to re-derive a Left and
> Right image.
>
> If you don’t have a purpose-built MS decoder plug-in (free ones are
> available for most DAW formats), or if you want to do MS decoding using a
> hardware mixing board, you can do that as long as you have a means of
> polarity-inverting the Side signal. It takes up three channels on the
> mixer: one for the Mid signal (panned center), one for the Side signal
> (panned left), and one for a polarity-inverted feed of the Side signal
> (panned right). The two faders for the Side signals should be grouped for
> equal loudness.
>
> One thing to note about at least some of those inexpensive Sony “MS” mics,
> though, is that they did not use a forward facing mid mic and a side-facing
> bidirectional mic like true Mid Side pairs. Instead they used an array of
> three cardioid mics facing left, center, and right, and mixed those to
> achieve their two channel stereo output.
>
> What’s the big deal about Mid Side? It always has a mic element facing the
> center, so the center of your image has full high frequency detail. Then
> you can add in as much Side signal as you like to widen the stereo image.
> XY stereo, in contrast, uses two coincident cardioid mics facing 45 degrees
> left and 45 degrees right of center. That means that the center of your
> image is 45 degrees off-axis for both of those mikes. Unless your cardioid
> mikes have perfect directional patterns across all frequencies (and let’s
> face it, almost none do), the high frequency content of the center of your
> image will be degraded in XY.
>
> —Flawn
>
> > On Jul 7, 2016, at 4:23 AM, wrote:
> >
> > 3a. Re: Sony ECM-979 MS
> > Posted by: "Scott Fraser" scottbfraser
> > Date: Wed Jul 6, 2016 9:34 am ((PDT))
> >
> > < " I believe you only get decoded LR output from these." meaning what
> please? Excuse my ignorance, but M/S is something I’ve not ventured into
> before. >
> >
> > The output of an MS array is not stereo, but rather components (forward
> facing mono & a side facing mono mix of left + right, out of polarity.)
> This raw signal needs to be decoded with an MS matrix in order to derive
> true stereo, i.e. what was to the left of the mic comes mostly out of the
> left speaker, etc. I believe the Sony MS mics (relying on 20+ year old
> memory of using these mics,) output decoded Left Right stereo, & do not
> give you access to the raw mid & side components. This is only of
> importance if you have an interest in altering the width of the decoded
> stereo signal. With the raw MS signal one can adjust the stereo width, from
> 100% compatible mono, through to somewhat wider than XY stereo. Personally,
> I don’t think that’s a big deal, though film & video post production
> mixers seem to like having that option.
> > SF
> >
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2. FW: Recording Pelagic Bird Calls
Posted by:
Date: Thu Jul 7, 2016 9:43 am ((PDT))
Mark is having difficulty posting to this forum, so I am passing this along.
For those of you unfamiliar with pelagic birding in the U.S., the area about
50km offshore of Cape Hatteras, North Carolina is the hotbed of pelagic birding
in the Eastern U.S. because the continental shelf is very narrow, and the
confluence of the Gulf Stream and the Labrador Current.
Russ Wigh
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Oberle
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 10:49 AM
To:
Subject: Recording Pelagic Bird Calls
Russ
(I am having trouble posting to the recordist group).
In June I have heard Great Shearwater making a
lamb-like bleating call off of North Carolina
when squabbling in small groups to grab chum.
I did not have a microphone with me, but it was very noisy with the boat motor
>2d. Re: Recording Pelagic Bird Calls
> Posted by: "Subramanian Sankar" subbush
> Date: Wed Jul 6, 2016 9:10 am ((PDT))
>
>Thanks.
>
>On 06-Jul-2016 9:26 PM, "David Darrell-Lambert
>[naturerecordists]" <> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > My limited experience of pelagic is that most of the birds don’t call. I
> > have heard gulls and terns calling which they seem to do regardless of
> > where they are but stuff like auks or shearwaters never seem to call. I
> > will ask the question of some seabird surveyors who spends months at sea
> > year if they hear anything calling.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > David Darrell-Lambert
> > Director
> > Bird Brain UK Limited
> > Suite 11908
> > 20-22 Wenlock Road
> > London
> > N1 7GU
> >
> > Company reg 06660127
> >
> > Mobile 07977 407 550
> > Mobile 07500 373 256
> >
> >
> > www.birdbrainuk.com
> > twitter.com/birdbrainuk
> > sound recordings available here
> > http://www.xeno-canto.org/contributor/AYKHDFBYIH
> > or https://soundcloud.com/birdbrainuk
Mark Oberle
Seattle, WA
Messages in this topic (1)
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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