There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Binaural test
From: Richard Youell
1b. Re: Binaural test
From: Jonas Gruska
1c. Re: Binaural test
From: J. Charles Holt
1d. Re: Binaural test
From: J. Charles Holt
1e. Re: Binaural test
From: madl74
2a. thin cables
From: Jonas Gruska
2b. Re: thin cables
From: madl74
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Binaural test
Posted by: "Richard Youell" ryouell
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:33 am ((PDT))
Hi Charles and all
I’m also in the middle of experimenting with some dummy-head binaural recording
too. eBay is a wonderful thing!
EM172s are also very wonderful.
I’ve made a ‘blind test’ of some simultaneous recordings that I made with
spaced AB (40cm) and dummy-head EM172s.
https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-a
https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-b
All comments and feedback welcome. Which pair did you prefer? Can you hear a
difference? What difference did you hear? Did you listen via speakers,
headphones or ear-buds? Which pair do you think are the spaced-omnis and which
the dummy head? ;-)
Richard
From:
Sent: 13 July 2015 21:08
To:
Subject: [Nature Recordists] Binaural test
I decided to try my hand at doing some binaural recording, as I’ve always been
fascinated by the demonstrations I’ve heard. I used a stereo pair of Clippy
EM172 mics I got from micbooster.com, along with a styrofoam head from a hobby
store and some silicone ears I purchased on eBay. After a bit of tweaking, I
got my first good recording out in the real world today, and I am pretty
impressed with the results, although I’d appreciate feedback from those who
really know what they’re doing.
My initial tests were interesting, but a bit disappointing. I was getting some
pretty good sound staging, but I wasn’t getting much differentiation between
front and rear. My hunch was that this was because I hadn’t incorporated ear
canals, and had simply placed the mics so that the opening was at the proper
location of the pinna facing outwards and flush with the surface. I picked up
some surgical tubing and made canals a little over an inch in length. This did
seem to help a lot, although it works much better with recordings where I’m
getting acoustics from the room, and not as well outside.
I made a recording at a wetlands that has nearby industry—not great for nature
recording, but good for a binaural demo. There’s a gravel pit behind, which has
large trucks. There’s a small airport a few miles away, so a bit of private
plane activity. There’s also a water treatment plant on the other side of the
pond, so ignore the steady background noise, it’s not the fault of the mics.
The head was placed such that there were a lot of birds to the right and left,
but not many in front, unfortunately.
The file is available here (343 MB):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x0jwrfmuj51sejy/150713_01.WAV
Here’s a picture of it in situ during the recording:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux2x2t4dw2jyofa/IMG_1762.jpg
Of particular interest are two planes. The first goes from right to left and
was behind, around 7:30. Around 14:30 there’s a plane that goes from left to
right somewhat in front (although more vertical). To my ear I am getting
placement both in front and behind, which was evident by reversing the
earphones and having the positions swap, but you’ll have to assess it yourself.
Surprisingly I’m getting a sense of vertical direction, but maybe it’s my mind
playing tricks on me. Most of the activity otherwise—trucks, people talking,
etc—is behind.
I’d love to hear people’s thoughts. Note that I haven’t done anything to the
file in terms of EQ or cleanup, this is straight out of the recorder.
– Charles
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Binaural test
Posted by: "Jonas Gruska" mrqwa
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:35 am ((PDT))
Here is my binaural project head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnWMKTI8et4
The ears are a bit too big, I ordered them from some german medical
store. They're made from silicone.
They are fitted with matched pair of Primo EM172.
Regards,
Jonas
✺ ✺ ✺
http://jonasgru.sk
On 17 Jul 2015, at 12:28, 'Richard Youell'
[naturerecordists] wrote:
> Hi Charles and all
>
>
>
> I’m also in the middle of experimenting with some dummy-head
> binaural recording too. eBay is a wonderful thing!
>
>
>
> EM172s are also very wonderful.
>
>
>
> I’ve made a ‘blind test’ of some simultaneous recordings that I
> made with spaced AB (40cm) and dummy-head EM172s.
>
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-a
>
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-b
>
>
>
> All comments and feedback welcome. Which pair did you prefer? Can you
> hear a difference? What difference did you hear? Did you listen via
> speakers, headphones or ear-buds? Which pair do you think are the
> spaced-omnis and which the dummy head? ;-)
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
>
> Sent: 13 July 2015 21:08
> To:
> Subject: [Nature Recordists] Binaural test
>
>
>
>
>
> I decided to try my hand at doing some binaural recording, as I’ve
> always been fascinated by the demonstrations I’ve heard. I used a
> stereo pair of Clippy EM172 mics I got from micbooster.com, along with
> a styrofoam head from a hobby store and some silicone ears I purchased
> on eBay. After a bit of tweaking, I got my first good recording out in
> the real world today, and I am pretty impressed with the results,
> although I’d appreciate feedback from those who really know what
> they’re doing.
>
> My initial tests were interesting, but a bit disappointing. I was
> getting some pretty good sound staging, but I wasn’t getting much
> differentiation between front and rear. My hunch was that this was
> because I hadn’t incorporated ear canals, and had simply placed the
> mics so that the opening was at the proper location of the pinna
> facing outwards and flush with the surface. I picked up some surgical
> tubing and made canals a little over an inch in length. This did seem
> to help a lot, although it works much better with recordings where
> I’m getting acoustics from the room, and not as well outside.
>
> I made a recording at a wetlands that has nearby industry—not great
> for nature recording, but good for a binaural demo. There’s a gravel
> pit behind, which has large trucks. There’s a small airport a few
> miles away, so a bit of private plane activity. There’s also a water
> treatment plant on the other side of the pond, so ignore the steady
> background noise, it’s not the fault of the mics. The head was
> placed such that there were a lot of birds to the right and left, but
> not many in front, unfortunately.
>
> The file is available here (343 MB):
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x0jwrfmuj51sejy/150713_01.WAV
>
> Here’s a picture of it in situ during the recording:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux2x2t4dw2jyofa/IMG_1762.jpg
>
> Of particular interest are two planes. The first goes from right to
> left and was behind, around 7:30. Around 14:30 there’s a plane that
> goes from left to right somewhat in front (although more vertical). To
> my ear I am getting placement both in front and behind, which was
> evident by reversing the earphones and having the positions swap, but
> you’ll have to assess it yourself. Surprisingly I’m getting a
> sense of vertical direction, but maybe it’s my mind playing tricks
> on me. Most of the activity otherwise—trucks, people talking,
> etc—is behind.
>
> I’d love to hear people’s thoughts. Note that I haven’t done
> anything to the file in terms of EQ or cleanup, this is straight out
> of the recorder.
>
> – Charles
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Binaural test
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:32 am ((PDT))
Richard,
I listened with headphones and switched back and forth between them a lot. They
sounded surprisingly similar to me in terms of sound staging. The overall
signal seemed much more defined in pair B, and I'm going to guess that pair A
was the binaural pair. I prefer B.
- Charles
(Pardon any terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPad.)
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 4:28 AM, 'Richard Youell'
> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
> Hi Charles and all
>
>
>
> I’m also in the middle of experimenting with some dummy-head binaural
> recording too. eBay is a wonderful thing!
>
>
>
> EM172s are also very wonderful.
>
>
>
> I’ve made a ‘blind test’ of some simultaneous recordings that I made with
> spaced AB (40cm) and dummy-head EM172s.
>
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-a
>
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-b
>
>
>
> All comments and feedback welcome. Which pair did you prefer? Can you hear a
> difference? What difference did you hear? Did you listen via speakers,
> headphones or ear-buds? Which pair do you think are the spaced-omnis and
> which the dummy head? ;-)
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
>
> Sent: 13 July 2015 21:08
> To:
> Subject: [Nature Recordists] Binaural test
>
>
>
>
>
> I decided to try my hand at doing some binaural recording, as I’ve always
> been fascinated by the demonstrations I’ve heard. I used a stereo pair of
> Clippy EM172 mics I got from micbooster.com, along with a styrofoam head from
> a hobby store and some silicone ears I purchased on eBay. After a bit of
> tweaking, I got my first good recording out in the real world today, and I am
> pretty impressed with the results, although I’d appreciate feedback from
> those who really know what they’re doing.
>
> My initial tests were interesting, but a bit disappointing. I was getting
> some pretty good sound staging, but I wasn’t getting much differentiation
> between front and rear. My hunch was that this was because I hadn’t
> incorporated ear canals, and had simply placed the mics so that the opening
> was at the proper location of the pinna facing outwards and flush with the
> surface. I picked up some surgical tubing and made canals a little over an
> inch in length. This did seem to help a lot, although it works much better
> with recordings where I’m getting acoustics from the room, and not as well
> outside.
>
> I made a recording at a wetlands that has nearby industry—not great for
> nature recording, but good for a binaural demo. There’s a gravel pit behind,
> which has large trucks. There’s a small airport a few miles away, so a bit of
> private plane activity. There’s also a water treatment plant on the other
> side of the pond, so ignore the steady background noise, it’s not the fault
> of the mics. The head was placed such that there were a lot of birds to the
> right and left, but not many in front, unfortunately.
>
> The file is available here (343 MB):
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x0jwrfmuj51sejy/150713_01.WAV
>
> Here’s a picture of it in situ during the recording:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux2x2t4dw2jyofa/IMG_1762.jpg
>
> Of particular interest are two planes. The first goes from right to left and
> was behind, around 7:30. Around 14:30 there’s a plane that goes from left to
> right somewhat in front (although more vertical). To my ear I am getting
> placement both in front and behind, which was evident by reversing the
> earphones and having the positions swap, but you’ll have to assess it
> yourself. Surprisingly I’m getting a sense of vertical direction, but maybe
> it’s my mind playing tricks on me. Most of the activity otherwise—trucks,
> people talking, etc—is behind.
>
> I’d love to hear people’s thoughts. Note that I haven’t done anything to the
> file in terms of EQ or cleanup, this is straight out of the recorder.
>
> – Charles
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Binaural test
Posted by: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:36 am ((PDT))
Jonas,
Having the head in a confined space with tile walls certainly helps to define
the acoustic characteristics of the room. I really feel that binaural benefits
greatly from being in an enclosed area. Left and right directionality was good,
but front to back and up and down were lost to me (I listened with my eyes
closed).
- Charles
(Pardon any terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPad.)
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 4:35 AM, 'Jonas Gruska'
> [naturerecordists] <> wrote:
>
> Here is my binaural project head:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnWMKTI8et4
>
> The ears are a bit too big, I ordered them from some german medical store.
> They're made from silicone.
> They are fitted with matched pair of Primo EM172.
>
> Regards,
> Jonas
>
>
>
> ✺ ✺ ✺
> homepage
>
> On 17 Jul 2015, at 12:28, 'Richard Youell'
> [naturerecordists] wrote:
>
> Hi Charles and all
>
>
>
> I’m also in the middle of experimenting with some dummy-head binaural
> recording too. eBay is a wonderful thing!
>
>
>
> EM172s are also very wonderful.
>
>
>
> I’ve made a ‘blind test’ of some simultaneous recordings that I made with
> spaced AB (40cm) and dummy-head EM172s.
>
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-a
>
>
>
> https://soundcloud.com/ryouell/compare-spaced-ab-and-binaural-pair-b
>
>
>
> All comments and feedback welcome. Which pair did you prefer? Can you hear a
> difference? What difference did you hear? Did you listen via speakers,
> headphones or ear-buds? Which pair do you think are the spaced-omnis and
> which the dummy head? ;-)
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
>
> Sent: 13 July 2015 21:08
> To:
> Subject: [Nature Recordists] Binaural test
>
>
>
>
>
> I decided to try my hand at doing some binaural recording, as I’ve always
> been fascinated by the demonstrations I’ve heard. I used a stereo pair of
> Clippy EM172 mics I got from micbooster.com, along with a styrofoam head from
> a hobby store and some silicone ears I purchased on eBay. After a bit of
> tweaking, I got my first good recording out in the real world today, and I am
> pretty impressed with the results, although I’d appreciate feedback from
> those who really know what they’re doing.
>
> My initial tests were interesting, but a bit disappointing. I was getting
> some pretty good sound staging, but I wasn’t getting much differentiation
> between front and rear. My hunch was that this was because I hadn’t
> incorporated ear canals, and had simply placed the mics so that the opening
> was at the proper location of the pinna facing outwards and flush with the
> surface. I picked up some surgical tubing and made canals a little over an
> inch in length. This did seem to help a lot, although it works much better
> with recordings where I’m getting acoustics from the room, and not as well
> outside.
>
> I made a recording at a wetlands that has nearby industry—not great for
> nature recording, but good for a binaural demo. There’s a gravel pit behind,
> which has large trucks. There’s a small airport a few miles away, so a bit of
> private plane activity. There’s also a water treatment plant on the other
> side of the pond, so ignore the steady background noise, it’s not the fault
> of the mics. The head was placed such that there were a lot of birds to the
> right and left, but not many in front, unfortunately.
>
> The file is available here (343 MB):
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x0jwrfmuj51sejy/150713_01.WAV
>
> Here’s a picture of it in situ during the recording:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux2x2t4dw2jyofa/IMG_1762.jpg
>
> Of particular interest are two planes. The first goes from right to left and
> was behind, around 7:30. Around 14:30 there’s a plane that goes from left to
> right somewhat in front (although more vertical). To my ear I am getting
> placement both in front and behind, which was evident by reversing the
> earphones and having the positions swap, but you’ll have to assess it
> yourself. Surprisingly I’m getting a sense of vertical direction, but maybe
> it’s my mind playing tricks on me. Most of the activity otherwise—trucks,
> people talking, etc—is behind.
>
> I’d love to hear people’s thoughts. Note that I haven’t done anything to the
> file in terms of EQ or cleanup, this is straight out of the recorder.
>
> – Charles
>
>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Binaural test
Posted by: madl74
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:52 pm ((PDT))
> The ears are a bit too big,
Jonas,
I've fallen for the temptation to quote the Brothers Grimm: "All the better
to hear you with, my dear" :-)
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. thin cables
Posted by: "Jonas Gruska" mrqwa
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:00 am ((PDT))
Hello everyone,
I am a manufacturer of these microphones:
https://zvukolom.org/product/usi-microphones-pre-order/
They're Primo EM172 based.
So far I've been using Mogami cables for them, but recently I've
stumbled upon a cable by Sommer with same diameter (2.6 mm)
http://shop.sommercable.com/en/Cables/Bulk-Cables-Audio/Patch-Mikrofonkabel-SC-Cicada-SO-D14-200-0451.html
It has very nice matt surface which doesn't slide, and it seems a bit
slightly more rigid then the Mogami. They're both respectable brands, so
I wanted to hear if you have any personal experience with it.
The 2.6mm is my max diameter, anything bigger wouldn't fit into a the
Neutrik jack (in pair).
Thank you,
Jonas
✺ ✺ ✺
http://jonasgru.sk
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: thin cables
Posted by: madl74
Date: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:08 pm ((PDT))
> It has very nice matt surface which doesn't slide, and it seems a bit
> slightly more rigid then the Mogami. They're both respectable brands,
Jonas,
One spec which is rarely given for cables is cable handling noise. There are
two types, cable microphony which is generated by tapping a cable, and cable
rustle which is caused by vibrations being carried along the cable to the
mic itself.
These only apply to mobile setups of course, but this includes "dummy head"
recordings using a real live head.
The Sommer cable seems to be stiffer, but with all cables, conducted cable
vibration noise can be minimised by tying a loose figure of 8 knot in the
cable below the mic.
David Brinicombe
Messages in this topic (2)
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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