It is often hard on forums to fully grasp what is implied by what is writte=
n & so, hoping i've not misunderstood the intent:
when it comes to field recordings use in a creative context (sound art, imp=
rovisation, music etc etc), just as with any element there are always (subj=
ective) questions of quality or at least some kind of commitment to the con=
tent - either focused or from a different artistic viewpoint. Everything is=
transformed when we get involved, to a lesser or greater extent. All of my=
comments on this subject have been related to the idea of an 'ideal' or a =
'right' way to do things - which is, imo, can be a closing down of openness=
. As with all things there are good & not so good.
Mix & edit wherever & however works for each person - but I stick to my poi=
nt that attempting to build a neutral, acoustically tuned space might assis=
t you in your process but it doesn't & can't guarantee that the end result =
will be 'better' or will communicate in some certain way to listeners. Soun=
d might be able to be explained by science but our response & connection to=
it isn't.
--- In Bernie Krause <> wrote:
>
> Not sure if the late John Cage carries any weight in this forum. But, =
> for what it's worth (I think it's been posted before), here's his take =
> on the matter since it has been a kind of false debate since the outset:
>
> In a "so what?" moment, John Cage best addressed the question of
> editing natural soundscape recordings at a sound arts conference held =
> at Skywalker Ranch (Lucasfilm) in Marin County in 1989. After being
> asked a direct question on the matter, he responded, "Attempts to
> replicate or capture aspects of the natural world without amendment
> speak clearly to a vision of paralysis and death=85The recording of
> sound [taking it out of one context and transferring it to another
> medium] simply cannot be done without some element of transformation." =
> He went on to say, kind of irritated by the gullibility of the
> question that while a clip may be spectacular, good, dramatic,
> delightful, or compelling, by the criteria of multiple capture
> choices, alone, not one single recording he had ever heard from any
> source was or is an actual representation of the original. By it's
> very nature the recording of sound is transformative (decontextualized =
> or abstracted). So, it follows logically, aesthetically, emotionally, =
> historically, philosophically, technically etc., etc., that there's no =
> such animal as an unadulterated recorded sound. When he said that, for =
> most of those within earshot, it was as if everything finally became
> clear and all those straw men and red herrings suddenly went extinct. =
> Show me a "pure" recording by that definition, and in addition to the =
> live baby wooly mammoth I'll send to you via Federal Express, I'll
> introduce you to the Virgin Mary as she materializes in full 3-D
> splendor from the image of a cheddar cheese sandwich in our nearby deli.
>
> Bernie Krause
>
>
> On May 28, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Jez wrote:
>
> > yes - that is part of my point indeed.
> >
> > sadly, there is a lot of 'sound art' that falls short of having been =
> > created through listening in a meaningful way. This is a problem
> > with all kinds of roots, not least being that curators by & large
> > have had no interest in creative music / sound exploration in their =
> > own listening habits & therefore often program work that is of poor =
> > quality or simply repeats work done for many years by others. I
> > could (but will refrain) name quite a few fairly well established
> > 'sound artists' who, in private, admit they don't care much about
> > sound & just view the art form as an easy way to get funding or
> > exhibition opportunities. The problem is that there are still not
> > enough people involved at a certain level who can spot the players
> > or know enough about the history of explorative sound to be able to =
> > recognise original approaches.
> >
> > --- In "hartogj"
> > <hartogj_1999@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Jez,
> >> Your point of view is clearer to me now. When it comes to creative =
> >> processes there are infinite possibilities. I would say any sound =
> >> art requires careful listening - it is not sound art after all
> >> until someone takes care to listen to it. Regarding nature sound
> >> recording as sound art, there is no reason to limit the form to any =
> >> specific medium. I might consider wax crayon on cardboard a nature =
> >> sound recording where it is evocative of natural sound.
> >>
> >> John Hartog
> >> rockscallop.org
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In "Jez" <tempjez@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> what about the opinions of 'experts' that differ from that ? For
> >>> me this is the point - that it is the material that matters & like =
> >>> it or not the music / sound that we respond to is made, mixed &
> >>> edited in all kinds of different spaces - with or without
> >>> headphones & with a wide range of speakers.
> >>>
> >>> I'm all for quality of course, but this is an individual choice. I =
> >>> have good speakers (a few different pairs in different rooms) & a =
> >>> pair of good headphones - the same pair I use in the field.
> >>>
> >>> As i've said before, I don't have any issues with anyone who
> >>> chooses to build a studio space or an acoustically treated space - =
> >>> each to their own of course, but in 35 years of involvement &
> >>> interest in field recording in its many different forms & on all
> >>> levels, it has been proved to me over & over again that material
> >>> can communicate even if its been mixed in less than what some
> >>> folks would describe as 'ideal' circumstances. I think my concerns =
> >>> when any aspects of a craft or art form gets herded towards some
> >>> 'ideal' is that what happens is, whilst precision becomes more
> >>> achievable to more people, things tend to edge towards a
> >>> mainstream, middle of the road approach & less personal.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps one of the difficulties with this conversation on this
> >>> particular group is that a large number of members are mainly
> >>> interested in the, technically, 'best' recording of a certain
> >>> species or environment. For many people however, whilst getting
> >>> good & powerfully eloquent recordings is a focus, what they are
> >>> aiming for is an emotive or creative impression of the location.
> >>>
> >>> We are talking about something that isn't set in stone here & I
> >>> think for me I find it both interesting & I confess a bit puzzling =
> >>> that anyone would take pleasure in listening to bird song (for
> >>> example) in the 'real' world & then take a recording of the same
> >>> back to a studio setting & try to 'perfect' the sound of the
> >>> recording. Its a personal view point of course but to me we
> >>> already know that we can't capture a 'neutral' recording - they
> >>> are always coloured by mic, recorder choice etc & therefore, if
> >>> one lets go of that to some degree, what becomes more interesting =
> >>> is capturing something of the experience of being in that location =
> >>> at that time.
> >>>
> >>> When it comes to editing (& I should declare here that it has been =
> >>> my approach for some time to do not processing - I top & tail & on =
> >>> rare occasions might eq out some hiss if the mic used has not
> >>> performed as i'd have liked, but thats it) I do this on headphones =
> >>> simply because i'm listening for any 'problems' - ie. not natural =
> >>> or man made sounds in the location but mic pops or other such
> >>> issues. I tend to live with recordings for some time before I do
> >>> anything public with them & therefore I would guess that the way I =
> >>> 'listen' to them critically for the most part involves playing
> >>> them back on the same system I listen to every day.
> >>>
> >>> so, back to the advice of experts bit & with the understanding
> >>> that this is another can of worms, what's an expert ? & what
> >>> happens when some say one thing & others say another ? I know were =
> >>> discussing fine hairs here but, for example, I sometimes get
> >>> referred to as an expert in field recording & I always say i'm
> >>> not because we are all engaged with listening to a world we don't =
> >>> control. We can gather knowledge of course but the moment we
> >>> assume we know exactly what we're doing is the moment we've lost
> >>> the most important point - to let go of our human need to
> >>> dominate, control & make assumptions of what is / will happen &
> >>> instead engage more closely with the listening & the simple act of =
> >>> being in a place for a period of time. Expert - urghh. We're not
> >>> plumbing in a sink here :)
> >>>
> >>> --- In "hartogj" <hartogj_1999@> =
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The definition of "mixing" was confusing from the beginning of
> >>>> this muddy thread.
> >>>> Is mixing limited to only the combining of separate sounds or
> >>>> tracks, or is the meaning extended to include other post
> >>>> production processing techniques that may be applied to an
> >>>> original recording?
> >>>>
> >>>> For critical analysis and fine adjustments of any recording, I
> >>>> will go along with the experts on this group who have in the past =
> >>>> many times recommended good monitors and good headphones, and an =
> >>>> acoustically treated space. Listening with two more different
> >>>> pairs of good headphones is better than using only one pair. I
> >>>> liked Bernie's description of his studio made without parallel
> >>>> walls or ceiling.
> >>>>
> >>>> John Hartog
> >>>> rockscallop.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > Krause.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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